Saxophones Selmer Series III dragonbird

[zannie]

Hi a friend of mine who isn't on here is looking at a secondhand Selmer Series III. She's found two in different places that are massively different prices - the really expensive one is labelled on the website as Dragonbird, the cheaper one isn't. Before she trots off to see and play them she asked me whether I knew what it meant. I haven't a clue but I said I thought you lot may. Is it a limited edition version? Google says it's something to do with engraving and a Charlie Parker tribute, but are all Series III after a certain year Dragonbird or not?

 

[Terrytoolpath]

I believe that the Dragon Bird is from the Bird series, a limited edition SA80 Series 2 Jubilie with a bird engraved into the bell, there are diferent birds for each country where Selmer's have a market, Dragon Bird was for asia...Kookaburra in Australia and so on

 

[Ivan]

I think @gladsaxisme had an alto in the series

 

[Jeanette]

I think @gladsaxisme had an alto in the series

he did 🙂

Jx

 

[sizzzzler]

The series II has an intonation issues with the basic top C#, use the alternative fingering. The series III resolved the intonation variation.

 

[DavidUK]

Dragonbird info:

https://www.selmer.fr/media/info/DRAGONBIRD-ANGLAIS-a.pdf

A little more here: Selmer Saxophones: A History Of Excellence and Innovation

What is she after, alto, tenor, etc? And what price has she seen? Does she want new, or would used from a trusted retailer be OK?

Might be able to steer her toward one...

 

[David Roach]

I quote from Saxophone.org:

"In 2005, Selmer Paris debuted a special "bird" series of saxophones, to commemorate the life of Charlie Parker (2005 being the 50th annivesary of his death). A total of 5 series were produced over 7 years, each with unique engraving. Within each series, there was a "standard" model and a "limited edition" model, with the limited often having more detailed engraving, and unique included accessories, and sometimes a special case as well.

Coming first in 2005, the Hummingbird series was available as a Reference 54 alto sax. The standard and limited models both featured honey gold lacquer (similar to the traditional tenor Reference 36 color). Approximately 300 of the standard were made for the USA market, and only about 70 of the limited model.

The second series was the Kookaburra, coming in 2006. This one again started with a Reference 54 alto, in standard and limited, as well as a new Reference 54 tenor sax. The standard alto had the same honey gold lacquer as the previous Hummingbird series, but the limited edition had the darker lacquer normally seen on the Reference altos. The tenor was limited edition only, with the honey gold lacquer. For the USA, approximately 330 standard altos, 90 limited altos, and 50 limited tenors were made.

The Flamingo series came next in 2007. Once again available as a Reference 54 for alto, the tenor this time was a Reference 36. This series came without high F# on all models. Both standard and limited altos were in the dark Reference 54 lacquer, and the limited only tenor was in a gold lacquer. The limited edition models also featured black pearl key touches. For numbers, there were about 110 of the standard altos, 30 limited altos, and 40 limited tenors made for the USA.

After a small break, the Firebird series was introduced in late 2008 to carry over into 2009. For the first time, the standard series was truly standard, with no set limit on production, and more models were available. The standard alto was available in either a Series II or Series III, with honey gold lacquer and black pearl key touches. The limited Reference 54 alto sax came in the dark Reference lacquer, with black pearls, and was available with or without high F#. Only about 250 of these were made in Paris. The sole tenor in the lineup was a limited edition Reference 54, also in honey gold lacquer and black pearls, with no high F#. Only about 150 of these were manufactured.

The final model in the Bird series was the Dragonbird, debuting in 2011. Lots of options here, with a standard Series III alto and tenor, and a limited edition Series III soprano and Reference 54 alto and tenor. All models were in gold lacquer, with black pearls, and once again all models went to high F# (high G on soprano)."

My feelings are that the 'Bird' series instruments were released more as a collectors items. They are/were considerably more expensive than a regular instrument, but not necessarily any different from a playing perspective.

See more good info here on the Kessler Music site..

 

[zannie]

Dragonbird info:

https://www.selmer.fr/media/info/DRAGONBIRD-ANGLAIS-a.pdf

A little more here: Selmer Saxophones: A History Of Excellence and Innovation

What is she after, alto, tenor, etc? And what price has she seen? Does she want new, or would used from a trusted retailer be OK?

Might be able to steer her toward one...

There are two she’s seen secondhand both in trusted retailers. The dragon bird is v more expensive than the other and further away. What she was trying to work out was whether it was more expensive just for the engraving so not worth travelling to try playing

 

[zannie]

Oh they’re tenors I think

 

[David Roach]

There are two she’s seen secondhand both in trusted retailers. The dragon bird is v more expensive than the other and further away. What she was trying to work out was whether it was more expensive just for the engraving so not worth travelling to try playing

Every individual instrument is different. It could be that the Dragon Bird is a wonderful example, or it might be just average. Same with the standard model. You cannot tell until you play them. And to be really frank, it's more about how well set up each instrument is, because nowadays Selmer's quality control is good, even if their final pre-shipping adjustment is not: i.e. there do not tend to be the real 'lemons' that there were in the 70s and 80s, but you do still have to spend a bit on set-up with a good tech.

However, in my view there is no advantage to the Dragon Bird apart from cosmetics and certain amount of kudos. If your friend has lots of money and is into something that looks special (and let's face it, most of us are to an extent), then the Dragon Bird may be for her. But if she's less bothered by cosmetics and the basic model is in good condition, I would suggest that she consider saving herself quite a bit of money that can be spent on a really good adjustment, a great mouthpiece, reeds etc etc.

 

[DavidUK]

There are two she’s seen secondhand both in trusted retailers. The dragon bird is v more expensive than the other and further away. What she was trying to work out was whether it was more expensive just for the engraving so not worth travelling to try playing

I guess you found the one just under £4,000?

 

[zannie]

I guess you found the one just under £4,000?

I don’t know, I’ve not seen either

 

[Saxlicker]

There are two she’s seen secondhand both in trusted retailers.

Good to trust a dealer but there is a premium attached to buying from any dealer of course.
The private contact I sent you is extremely reliable, experienced and knowledgeable I hope your friend checks him out.

 

[Lockjaw]

I have to take issue with the comments that the Ref. 54 Dragonbird is just a marketing gimmick with only cosmetic differences versus the standard Ref. 54. I wonder how many of those posters have actually played one?

I was never a great fan of Selmers (including the revered Mk VIs etc.) till I tried a Dragonbird tenor, fell in love with it and bought it. Firstly, the throat keys are more ergonomic - I find the standard Ref. 54 throat keys to be quite clunky compared to my previous Yamaha 62. Secondly, the tone is fabulous, it seems to spit and crackle on demand. And yes, it also looks great. I love it and wouldn't play anything else.