Great Players Recommendation beginners' listening, famous, infamous and also more obscure.

[mrblackbat]

As a swing era musician he was known for his idea of making bop popular. “Bop for the people” at a time when bebop was sort of kicking against the established swing/jazz

Might that be more interpreted as "bop for the white people" and "making bop popular with white people"? My understanding is actually that bebop and hard bop were both incredibly popular in the 40s and 50s in New York, packing clubs out regularly. Minton's, for example, was primarily frequented by the African Americans from Harlem, but it was rammed regularly, with a house band led by Monk.

This isn't to say that Ventura isn't a great sax player, well worth listening to. But he's not alone in the cross over guys from swing to bop; Don Byas in particular was phenomenal, Dexter, Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster, Illinois Jacquet, Sonny Stitt all were guys who started in the swing bands but also became major forces in bebop and hard bop.

 

[Pete Effamy]

As per Pete’s title, I think that there might be a difference in recommendations for beginners.

Yes, we can learn from almost anyone; but I wonder what the ear of a beginner will pick up from certain players - Coltrane for instance. No over-use of vibrato.. and lots of notes.. as opposed to say, Paul Desmond - airy sound, much slower (able to copy) player, and that West Coast short-but-significant vibrato right at the end of a note. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[mizmar]

As per Pete’s title, I think that there might be a difference in recommendations for beginners.

Yes, we can learn from almost anyone; but I wonder what the ear of a beginner will pick up from certain players - Coltrane for instance. No over-use of vibrato.. and lots of notes.. as opposed to say, Paul Desmond - airy sound, much slower (able to copy) player, and that West Coast short-but-significant vibrato right at the end of a note. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Exactly.
It's not just recommendations for listening; but to "listen out for...". In your example, if someone's working on vibrato, doing some exercises can open the ears - well, for me anyway - and you can start to hear what's happening and how.

But, also, just listening to interesting artists from a wide range of styles helps map out the landscape; various jazz, rock, funk, classical, whatever; I mentioned Nyman...

 

[mrblackbat]

As per Pete’s title, I think that there might be a difference in recommendations for beginners.

Yes, we can learn from almost anyone; but I wonder what the ear of a beginner will pick up from certain players - Coltrane for instance. No over-use of vibrato.. and lots of notes.. as opposed to say, Paul Desmond - airy sound, much slower (able to copy) player, and that West Coast short-but-significant vibrato right at the end of a note. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I think some of it is the art of the possible for beginners; what sounds there are, how different the saxophone can sound.

 

[MikeMorrell]

People take up the saxophone sometimes because they just like the idea of the instrument, sometimes because of a specific player they heard. But I think it's good to have a really broad selection of players to listen to, whether you love what they do or hate it.

It might be good to suggest some players that you think are essential to listen to, either the most obvious in various genres but I thought it would also be good to broaden out and give some suggestions of the less well known, that you consider essential.

Either because they are unsung heroes or because it's something a bit different, left field or whatever.

This one is definitely left field but (for beginners) I'm going to suggest a young (23) Dutch sax player called Karsten Belt. Why? Because his solo recordings (on alt and tenor saxes) to backing tracks have such a wide following -globally - on social media. For example, 1.7M followers on TikTok, 417K on Instagram and 147K on YouTube. So he must be doing something right to attract young audiences on-line.
He's of course appeared on Dutch media but also played live with Australian musician Dean Lewis and via a remote link on the US 'Jimmy Fallon show'.

His 'street performance' video-recordings are great fun to watch (ignoring the ambient sound quality).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6KzTuj2o84

 

[Pete Effamy]

I think some of it is the art of the possible for beginners; what sounds there are, how different the saxophone can sound.

Yes, but maybe that comes under motivation.

 

[JayeNM]

Interesting whenever these sorta threads start on sax forums, almost immediately it is JAZZ players many people start naming. (Don't jump on me I didn't write "all"...and as the thread lengthened more genres started elbowing in there...)

I mean, OK, I'll get to them too.

But how about

Clarence Clemons
King Curtis

as a couple of pretty obvious choices. You may or may not think that their playing is as awesome as some or any of the Jazz greats, but this thread doesn't say anything about suggesting Jazz players, just suggestions you might make of players to someone who is either just picking up the sax or even not a musician, just someone who has always liked listening.

Also, it doesn't read "Greatest"....it intimates (to me) "what players would you suggest to someone who wants to listen to sax in music ?" This is how I interpret it...maybe I misinterpreted it (?)

So, in that vein....how about Maceo as well ? What about Pee-Wee Ellis ?

Shouldn't, maybe, Candy Dulfer be there ?

Or Junior Walker ?

To me, if someone is sorta dipping their toes into sax listening, or sax playing... I would suggest players who are pretty "consumable" if I may use that word, to a general music listener.

Dana Colley, mentioned above...great suggestion. The Tenor player Skerik, I would recommend, just because besides being an awesome player he uses pedals and effects, and uses them really tastefully. Again, my idea to illustrate the breadth of possibilities and different contexts.

IF I were to suggest JAZZ sax players to someone who is a sorta NEOPHYTE to Jazz , so they wanted to be steered towards some jazz sax players (loosely talking straight-ahead)...I would probably say the likes of:

Stanley Turrrentine
Lou Donaldson
Ben Webster
Desmond

as starters....because they have soul or beauty, or both.....but I would probably also suggest they listen to (aforementioned) Sam Butera's work with Louis Prima; and also I would suggest listening to some Bechet, certainly.
Frankie Trumbauer....that was a good suggestion above, too.

Would one throw in Rudy Wiedoeft ? I might, albeit I would not consider him particularly graspable to a beginning sax listener....but as an illustration of that particular era, maybe. Or maybe not.....not sure. He might be a bit too esoteric for today's ears. Maybe I withdraw that idea....

Again, the idea I'd be aiming for here being twofold: a) start with someone graspable and a genre/sub-genre somewhat audibly user-friendly, and b) do not stick to a single genre, if for no other reason than to demonstrate sax is appropriate for multiple genres and across/thru the eras....

My tendency would be to even start jazz-curious folks out with some Fusion players, before moving them to straight-ahead:

Grover
Ronnie Laws
Sanborn
Jay Beckenstein

 

[Pete Thomas]

Interesting whenever these sorta threads start on sax forums, almost immediately it is JAZZ players many people start naming. (Don't jump on me I didn't write "all")

I mean, OK, I'll get to them too.

But how about

Clarence Clemons
King Curtis

as a couple of pretty obvious choices. You may or may not think that their playing is as awesome as some or any of the Jazz greats, but this thread doesn't say anything about suggesting Jazz players, just suggestions you might make of players to someone who is either just picking up the sax or even not a musician, just someone who has always liked listening.

Also, it doesn't read "Greatest"....it intimates (to me) "what players would you suggest to someone who wants to listen to sax in music ?" This is how I interpret it...maybe I misinterpreted it (?)

So, in that vein....how about Maceo as well ? What about Pee-Wee Ellis ?

Shouldn't, maybe, Candy Dulfer be there ?

Or Junior Walker ?

To me, if someone is sorta dipping their toes into sax listening, or sax playing... I would suggest players who are pretty "consumable" if I may use that word, to a general music listener.

IF I were to suggest JAZZ sax players to someone who is a sorta NEOPHYTE to Jazz , so they wanted to be steered towards some jazz sax players (loosely talking straight-ahead)...I would probably say the likes of:

Stanley Turrrentine
Lou Donaldson
Ben Webster

as starters....but I would probably also suggest they listen to Sam Butera's work with Louis Prima and also I would suggest listening to some Bechet ?

Again, the idea here being twofold: a) start with someone graspable and a genre/sub-genre somewhat audibly user-friendly, and b) do not stick to a single genre, if for no other reason than to demonstrate sax is appropriate for multiple genres.

My tendency would be to even start jazz-curious folks out with some Fusion players, before moving them to straight-ahead:

Grover
Ronnie Laws
Sanborn
Jay Beckenstein

. This was my thinking behind the thread, go beyond the stereotype of the saxophone as a jazz instrument. Maybe make it more relevant to people in general.

So what about country (and/or western)? For example Ace Cannon

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLroq-v28Dg

 

[JayeNM]

So what about country (and/or western)? For example Ace Cannon

There you go ! I generally dislike the genre but if the idea is being an objective source for someone, yeah, it'd probably be worth doing a bit of searching in that genre....

edit - I did a 4-minute search, it's more challenging than I expected....but there is some stuff there....

OOOH...one bad omission I made to my initial reply.....

I would definitely suggest Charles Neville (of the Neville Bros)....he did some really tasty stuff...his solos were always pretty short but very nice, and he came up with some really tasty call-answers on the heads of some of their tunes....another example of non-jazz sax.....

Interestingly, talking about a Louisianan...some Zydeco music has sax in it too......I might suggest a few Zydeco tunes as well....albeit it would be hard to name a sax player by name who appears throughout that genre.....

 

[MikeMorrell]

This might or might not be 'on-topic'. If not (mods) please move or remove!

I truly hope that this list of 'essential listening for beginners' gets whittled down a bit in some way. Not only in terms of the sheer numbers of sax players but also in terms of the tunes they play(ed) which would be 'helpful' for beginners. From what I've seen so far, most 'recommended players' have advanced sax playing skills. So the 'gap' between what and how they play and how 'beginners' play is huge!

IMHO, any 'recommended listening list' for beginners should focus on relatively simple tunes (for example ballads) played well that beginners can relate to. They may be inspired by the 'sound', the musical expression, etc. But IMHO, too big a 'gap' between what beginners are now capable of playing (for the next few years) and the 'dazzling technique' demonstrated by some advanced players on some tracks may inspire and motivate some beginners and disillusion others.

In a previous post, I noted that many 'famous/advanced' sax players are comfortable playing in different styles.
Just a few examples that spring to mind:
- John Coltrane could play Be-bop with the best but his simple ballad 'Naima' is much closer to the playing abilities of beginners
- something similar applies same applies to some Sonny Rollins tunes

As a 'beginner', I would never have found the time (or motivation) to check out all the different tunes played by all the sax players listed in this thread so far. And like most 'beginners', I was mainly focused on trying to 'play my instrument better', 'read sax music better' and (very gradually) 'develop a better tone'. I had little interest in 'listening to advanced sax players' I did a quick search on the café and most 'beginners threads' seem to tie in with my own experience.

But there are a couple of 'helpful' videos for beginners that spring to mind:
- Melissa Aldana (La Sentencia)
- John Coltrane (Naima)
- Sonny Rollins (God bless the Child)

IMHO, these are relatively 'easy' tunes that are 'in reach' of beginners but illustrate how 'advanced' players choose to play them with musical expression. The 'gap' in playing ability is less wide than for mor 'technically challenging' pieces.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epCHdZ7mHRo

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brgN0MJIvrM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioR8c6Xw0xk

 

[JayeNM]

This might or might not be 'on-topic'. If not (mods) please move or remove!

I truly hope that this list of 'essential listening for beginners' gets whittled down a bit in some way. Not only in terms of the sheer numbers of sax players but also in terms of the tunes they play(ed) which would be 'helpful' for beginners. From what I've seen so far, most 'recommended players' have advanced sax playing skills. So the 'gap' between what and how they play and how 'beginners' play is huge!

IMHO, any 'recommended listening list' for beginners should focus on relatively simple tunes (for example ballads) played well that beginners can relate to. They may be inspired by the 'sound', the musical expression, etc. But IMHO, too big a 'gap' between what beginners are now capable of playing (for the next few years) and the 'dazzling technique' demonstrated by some advanced players on some tracks may inspire and motivate some beginners and disillusion others.

In a previous post, I noted that many 'famous/advanced' sax players are comfortable playing in different styles.
Just a few examples that spring to mind:
- John Coltrane could play Be-bop with the best but his simple ballad 'Naima' is much closer to the playing abilities of beginners
- something similar applies same applies to some Sonny Rollins tunes

As a 'beginner', I would never have found the time (or motivation) to check out all the different tunes played by all the sax players listed in this thread so far. And like most 'beginners', I was mainly focused on trying to 'play my instrument better', 'read sax music better' and (very gradually) 'develop a better tone'. I had little interest in 'listening to advanced sax players' I did a quick search on the café and most 'beginners threads' seem to tie in with my own experience.

But there are a couple of 'helpful' videos for beginners that spring to mind:
- Melissa Aldana (La Sentencia)
- John Coltrane (Naima)
- Sonny Rollins (God bless the Child)

IMHO, these are relatively 'easy' tunes that are 'in reach' of beginners but illustrate how 'advanced' players choose to play them with musical expression. The 'gap' in playing ability is less wide than for mor 'technically challenging' pieces.

I get what you are saying...it is coming from another direction towards the same idea I was suggesting....the music has to be 'graspable' to a (relatively) new listener or player. There has to be something 'familiar enough' in the material for a non-sax player/non-sax listener to relate to, initially.
Thus my thought of suggesting 'bluesy-er' jazz players who tended to play songs with 'catchier' melodies, or starting with musical genres which had some 'pop' or ;rock' elements to them, such as Fusion, etc.

I can see (HAVE seen) where suggesting 'heavy hitters' has actually alienated people from Jazz particularly....and I could see how it could conceivably alienate folks from sax music, albeit unintentionally of course....

 

[skeller047]

the music has to be 'graspable' to a (relatively) new listener or player. There has to be something 'familiar enough' in the material for a non-sax player/non-sax listener to relate to, initially.

I agree completely. Two of the most successful saxophonists in the world, and one was only mentioned here once, and the other not at all. I speak of course of

Grover Washington Jr.
Kenny G.

Kirk Whalum and Gerald Albright also need some love, they have quite a following and both are extremely skilled technically.

 

[arbin]

Agree completely on Ace Cannon. Saw him 4 times. Awesome 3 times, could hardly stand the 4th.

Some others

Ornette Coleman
Eric Dolphy
Bobby Keys
King Curtis
Clarence

 

[Jeanette]

I don't think there is any harm in listening to a range of players even if they play well beyond your level. Especially if they inspire you.

At different stages of your journey you will hear and understand different aspects of their playing.

Jx

 

[mark_addy]

It's so hard now for a beginner, because there is so much (well, pretty much - there is EVERYTHING (or very nearly) that ever was) available to listen to, now, for free.

I was very lucky - there was an alto in the house that Dad had once tried to play. There were also 2 dixie LPs, 1 Charlie Ventura LP, a Dave Brubeck EP, and a Tubby Hayes single. So when I felt like listening to jazz, that was what I listened to. I still get the thing folks might remember at the end of a song, when the intro to the next one on the album comes to mind (because you haven't many records so you listen to them a lot).

I banged on about 'constraints' in the thread on (racks brain) architecture and - Jazz Snobs. There no putting the genie back in the bottle, but I also vote for giving a beginner one compilation album with some ballads on it by some half-decent players and saying 'see which one of those you want to have a go at'. That would work better for someone like me, rather than a big list of really great players who one really ought to listen to. I can't handle all that much all at once.

 

[MikeMorrell]

I don't think there is any harm in listening to a range of players even if they play well beyond your level. Especially if they inspire you.

At different stages of your journey you will hear and understand different aspects of their playing.

Jx

I agree, @Jeanette,
B

 

[JayeNM]

I don't think there is any harm in listening to a range of players even if they play well beyond your level. Especially if they inspire you.

No harm, no but it depends on their style, honestly.

We can say with certainty Eric Dolphy and Ornette and Parker and Coltrane and Jackie McClean were all great....

...but in the context posited in the OP....would those really be apt suggestions for someone just getting into playing sax who isn't really a jazz listener already ?

I might argue that those suggestions would actually be counter-productive if the goal was to help a beginner out with an appropriate listening list. They are doing too much for a relative neophyte to grasp, and I think the result might be intimidation and some confusion rather than inspiration, is all.

 

[arbin]

No harm, no but it depends on their style, honestly.

We can say with certainty Eric Dolphy and Ornette and Parker and Coltrane and Jackie McClean were all great....

...but in the context posited in the OP....would those really be apt suggestions for someone just getting into playing sax who isn't really a jazz listener already ?

I might argue that those suggestions would actually be counter-productive if the goal was to help a beginner out with an appropriate listening list. They are doing too much for a relative neophyte to grasp, and I think the result might be intimidation and some confusion rather than inspiration, is all.

Yet those were the same players that encouraged me to be better when I was 12.

 

[wakyct]

I think you can read the OP a few different ways but the sense I got was "what are a broad range of players a beginner might not have heard of in order to expose them to different styles of saxophone playing". So I suggest:

Lee Konitz
Caroline Davis
Colin Stetson
Matana Roberts
Sam Gendel

 

[PigSquealer]

This one is definitely left field but (for beginners) I'm going to suggest a young (23) Dutch sax player called Karsten Belt. Why? Because his solo recordings (on alt and tenor saxes) to backing tracks have such a wide following -globally - on social media. For example, 1.7M followers on TikTok, 417K on Instagram and 147K on YouTube. So he must be doing something right to attract young audiences on-line.
He's of course appeared on Dutch media but also played live with Australian musician Dean Lewis and via a remote link on the US 'Jimmy Fallon show'.

His 'street performance' video-recordings are great fun to watch (ignoring the ambient sound quality).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6KzTuj2o84

This young man exemplifies exactly my style of interest and playing feel. Thank you for sharing !