Great Players Ornette Coleman

[Jules]

I've just spotted there's no thread discussing Ornette Coleman. So I decided to remedy this.
Been listening to a "Blue Note- best of" quite a bit recenty. A disc which features a chronic lack of sleeve notes concerning era of the tracks, personel etc.... great music to have on in the car for late night, urban driving (though slightly 'Taxi Driver'!).....
Lets talk Ornette....

 

[TomMapfumo]

I mostly know his brother, David. No, I would be interested in partaking in some discussion - I am more aware of Don Cherry, the cornet player that worked with him in 'free jazz' times.

Kind regards
Tom 8)

 

[Mikec]

A man who stood up for his musical principles, suffering decades of abuse and a physical breakdown, but not giving up. I have only heard "The Shape of Jazz to Come", which I find unusual but not radical, at this distance in time. The differences are numerous but quite subtle, I feel.

 

[mfox]

i like OC because he could really play.. not like some free jazzers who just make noise.

 

[Bobby G]

I like "Free Jazz" from the double quartet, and the related (in a musical sense) "Twins", another double quartet set, the one being a later, extended version of the original idea.

These two are further examples of music that does sound quite 'out there', but there always seems to be, if not a strict tempo as such, a definite pulse, and having Don Cherry and Freddie Hubbard on board is a definite plus.

My main problem is that I am forever mixing up Ornette and Eric Dolphy in my mind.....

 

[Jules]

Anyone know much about his development down the ages- we're all talking about his early output here but he's been recording right up to, well- now. do we have anybody on board who's clued up on 1980s. 90s or millenial Coleman?
I know his last touring band consisted of hi, a drummer and three bassists, he recorded a quite beautiful soundtrack album to David Cronenbrug's movie of the Naked Lunch & that he worked with Pat Metheny but there ends my knowledge of later Coleman.
By the way, vaguely linked to this- Don Cherry's album, Brown Rice, is superb and highly recommended to anyone who's curious. "anyone who's curious'.. hang on, that doesn't sound right!!! :laugh:

 

[Bobby G]

I heard something once from either the late 80's or early 90's, very disappointing; very 'produced' and not at all inspiring. Maybe a bad day for me, or him, or both of us....

 

[young_col]

My Rough Guide to Jazz (not the most up to date, but always within reach) notes that as well as The Naked Lunch in '91, in 83 there was a work called Time Design (in memory of Buckminster Fuller) and a 1984 work for strings (both performed at a festival in Ornettte's honour in Hartford, Conn in '85. In '87 he made a double album "In all Languages" using his Prime Time band for one disc and his acoustic quartet for the other. In the mid-90s he was touring with several acoustic groups, including son Denardo, Don Cherry, Geri Allen and Charnett Moffet.

The Rough Guide writer Ian Carr is critical of a lack of development and of Ornette's use of trumpet and violin in addition to his main alto ("a desperate search for new colours and textures"). I can't comment as I don't know any of these works. Jazz Record Requests had a track of his with strings a couple of weeks ago and I thought the ensemble sections really quite messy.

OG - Ornette played at Fairfield Hall, Croydon, in '65: it is the centre of the Universe after all!
YC

 

[griff136]

Young Col wrote:

OG - Ornette played at Fairfield Hall, Croydon, in '65: it is the centre of the Universe after all!
YC

Dang, and there's me thinkin the workshop at John Myall Music in Croydon was the centre of the universe - particularly on Thursdays! :laugh:

 

[young_col]

Well it is now Griff of course - and it's only down the road from the Hall!

 

[old_git]

Oh come, come.
First of all, Ian is also worthy of his hire
and

 

[Jules]

how amazingly odd- from the king of avant garde free jazz to the finer points of croydon in a few easy steps! :laugh:

 

[Pete Thomas]

Ornette was one of two main early influences on me, (as can be heard maybe on one of the more embarrassing tracks on Radio Breakfast - my foray into free jazz Descension)

I have to admit that I'm more keen on the Shape of jazz to Come and Change of the Century than some of the later stuff. I saw him in the late 60s, he was great but I was sad to see the low A MKVI rather than a Grafton.

 

[Jules]

theory- those with a rock background seem to be more open minded to OCs music than 'straight down the line' jazzers. I get the feeling the mindset required to appeciate his music seems to have more in common with the arty end of rock music than the intellectual starting point of jazz/bebop....
probably applies to free jazz in general (I find it easier to equate Peter Brotzman to Neil Youngs's feeback blowouts or the Velvet Underground than to Micheal Brecker, for starters)

 

[Bobby G]

nachoman wrote:
theory- those with a rock background seem to be more open minded to OCs music than 'straight down the line' jazzers. I get the feeling the mindset required to appeciate his music seems to have more in common with the arty end of rock music than the intellectual starting point of jazz/bebop....
probably applies to free jazz in general (I find it easier to equate Peter Brotzman to Neil Youngs's feeback blowouts or the Velvet Underground than to Micheal Brecker, for starters)

This is kind of a two-way street; strip away the drugs and whimsy from arty-rock and I reckon it took a lot from the more adventurous end of jazz, even down to the fact that some of the artyrockers were originally down-on-their-luck jazzers from the earlier part of the 60's, or at least associates of them. For a while there was quite a lot of cross-fertilisation between cutting edge jazz and arty-rock. Chuck a bit of pure noise into the mix, and voila!

 

[Jules]

Bobby G wrote:

nachoman wrote:
theory- those with a rock background seem to be more open minded to OCs music than 'straight down the line' jazzers. I get the feeling the mindset required to appeciate his music seems to have more in common with the arty end of rock music than the intellectual starting point of jazz/bebop....
probably applies to free jazz in general (I find it easier to equate Peter Brotzman to Neil Youngs's feeback blowouts or the Velvet Underground than to Micheal Brecker, for starters)

Chuck a bit of pure noise into the mix, and voila!

seems like the pure noise which acts as the common currency a lot of the time- Ayler and Brotzman to, as I said, Neil Young and the Velvet Underground... plus, of course, Hendrix' Star Spangled Banner (probably the best comparison to Brotzman- pure noise with an angry, political agenda)