Scam/Fake? Oooh! A goading faker now...

[DavidUK]

Same seller as posted by @jonf here: Fake! - Counterfeit Selmer Mk VI being openly sold on eBay - Cafesax

But... here's a new twist, and he may have eBay messaged Jon out of the blue the same as me, as under...

"Thought you might like to activate your saxophone police red button again I will be selling another saxophone, being auto cad back engineered, they sound the same as the originals, which does effect sales of original Selmer V1 saxophones, tough but true, but we all play copy's now, they don't rattle, are less expensive, not going to get pissed getting it knicked at a gig. Play just as fast, plus sounding the same, the list goes on. And thankfully I sold off all my original Selmer v1 saxophones, unlike your vii which frankly is going to be a tough sell as they were rubbish when they came out and flopped after 2 years, so you have what we call in the trade as a lemon."

Hmmm... a few things here:

• I wonder if he's close to the manufacturing, rather than simply buying a counterfeit by accident?
• I wonder if he realises he's funding the criminal underworld's other illegal activities of drug dealing; prostitution; people trafficking; etc?
• I wonder if "we" do all play copies of MkVIs now. Anyone playing a copy?
• I wonder if he's a pro player as he talks about not getting annoyed at gigs?
• I wonder if he knows anything about Selmers? The MkVII altos and tenors were indeed panned by some, but my MkVII bari is actually identical to a MkVI, just badged MkVII. A lack of research there for sure.
• I wonder if he knows it's MkVI and not MkV1?
• I wonder if he has the balls to come on to this thread and explain his stance on illegal counterfeits?
• I wonder if he'll hide the Selmer logo with a mouthpiece in his upcoming eBay listing?
• I wonder if anyone here has a contact in Trading Standards so that this chap could be arrested, prosecuted, and his fakes taken out of circulation.
• I wonder if I should send him a link to this thread?

Add him to your favourite sellers perhaps?

 

[DavidUK]

Just after I posted the above the eBayer, a member here perhaps, messaged me:

"Ya can try but the reality is mine will sell and yours will remain a loss as you would only make £2,800.00 on a mark vii so technically you remain with as they say a lemon unless you eat the loss, just advice on market values."

How very smart he is! He knows the market values and how much I paid.

It's like him saying "You can work hard all your life and amass legitimate savings to draw upon but I prefer to don balaclava and gun and hold up a bank every few months, never getting caught, ha ha!"

 

[DavidUK]

I see there's coincidentally a SOTW member called fastwindblow who also lives in Maesteg, Wales:

https://www.saxontheweb.net/members/fastwindblow.71951/

I wonder if SOTW fastwindblow in Maesteg knows eBay fastwindblow in Maesteg?

Actually, if you Google fastwindblow you can pretty easily discover who he is.

Hmmm... what should I do with this information as an upright citizen...?

 

[jonf]

@DavidUK he hasn't been in touch with me so far. I did see his allegedly auto cad Selmer soprano copy. It looks a bit crap, with badly fitted pads, and the soprano was the worst in the Mk VI range, with a dated design. I didn't see any sign of a maker's mark being reproduced, which if it is the case means it probably wouldn't be regarded as a counterfeit under criminal law. There may be a case for copyright infringement in the civil courts. What that does mean, though, is it's just another unbranded soprano. As such, it's not really worth £100, never mind the £650 he wants for it.

 

[Pete Thomas]

There may be a case for copyright infringement in the civil courts

If it is a Selmer logo then it is trademark infringement, not copyright which applies to artistic works not brand identity. It’s just as bad. Just being a copy of a Selmer MVI with no logo is not illegal.

If someone copies a Selmer that has a current patent then that could be patent infringement, but I don't think there are any active patents on a MKVI. There are plenty of copies around and perfectly legal. The only issue is when someone attempts to pass it off as something it sin't.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I will be selling another saxophone, being auto cad back engineered, they sound the same as the originals,

I imagine there's a good chance if it is accurate auto CAD back engineered re: the body and the manufacturing tolerances are close enough.

But I don't understand the point of "goading" you over a copy that is not a counterfeit, given that copying instruments (without the brand infringement) is very common and not illegal.

However if it's just a typical Chinese MKVI copy, then it won't be very well back engineered. so just another £100 noname soprano

 

[DavidUK]

Perhaps he had 2nd thoughts on a fake Selmer after I suggested he look up the penalties, i.e. prison.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Perhaps he had 2nd thoughts on a fake Selmer after I suggested he look up the penalties, i.e. prison.

Is there now a post of a fake Selmer though? I just thought this was about a Selmer copy (unbranded) that is legal.



I'm confused now. What eBay ad is this thread about? Is it about a counterfeit or just a copy?

 

[DavidUK]

In Jon's previous thread you'll find the eBay link to the seller's fake Selmer, logo visible but obstructed by a mouthpiece over it. EBay refused to remove the listing as there was no counterfeit in their eyes, i.e. they couldn't recognise the brand mark.

In the seller's message to me he suggests he'll list another fake Selmer.

 

[Jimmymack]

I suspect he's a lurker here.

 

[Colin the Bear]

And, why would he not be?

 

[Trigger]

He’s now put it back on without using the title Mkvi copy , starting price £640 ,
You can get a eastern music one cheaper and they are not a bad sax

 

[DavidUK]

I was anticipating another tenor with Selmer logo. That's not to say the sop doesn't have one hidden.

 

[Ivan]

"Thought you might like to activate your saxophone police red button again I will be selling another saxophone, being auto cad back engineered, they sound the same as the originals, which does effect sales of original Selmer V1 saxophones, tough but true, but we all play copy's now, they don't rattle, are less expensive, not going to get pissed getting it knicked at a gig. Play just as fast, plus sounding the same, the list goes on. And thankfully I sold off all my original Selmer v1 saxophones, unlike your vii which frankly is going to be a tough sell as they were rubbish when they came out and flopped after 2 years, so you have what we call in the trade as a lemon."

Can't spell, 'affect'?

Dodgy trader