Miscellaneous Online Safety Act and impact on the Cafe

[mizmar]

No not at all

Ok. But ofcom says

Credit cards checks. In the UK, credit card issuers are obliged to verify that applicants are over 18 before providing them with a credit card. A user can provide their credit card details to the online pornography service, after which a payment processor sends a request to check the card is valid to the issuing bank. Approval by the bank can be taken as evidence that the user is over 18.

Implementing the Online Safety Act: Protecting children from online pornography

Children are set to be protected from accessing online pornography under new age-check guidance proposed by Ofcom today to help services to comply with online safety laws.

www.ofcom.org.uk

So anyone who's paid supporter - or at least had a card verified by a bank - is over 18 and doesn't need protection. No?

So, at a push, a base level, £1, membership could be required for DMs. Though that may not cover the costs!

 

[mizmar]

monitoring

Sure, monitoring. As distinct from (self) reporting. We all monitor public posts but not, obviously, other people's DM

 

[Pete Thomas]

Sounds totally excessive for sites such as this. What about sites owned & hosted outside of the UK?

They are still covered by the act.

So anyone who's paid supporter - or at least had a card verified by a bank - is over 18 and doesn't need protection. No?

Possibly. Does the age limit cover debit cards as well as credit cards.

So, at a push, a base level, £1, membership could be required for DMs. Though that may not cover the costs!

That is a possibility, again something for a poll. Or the payment can be refunded - we’d lose the processing fee though.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Does the age limit cover debit cards as well as credit cards.

Just found the answer, no. So that won’t work as our card payment processing via Stripe cannot differentiate between credit or debit.

 

[mizmar]

Just found the answer, no. So that won’t work as our card payment processing via Stripe cannot differentiate between credit or debit.

Shame. But i suspect a lot of people no longer have a credit card. I hoped the card handling service could confirm > 18...

 

[mizmar]

Apparently the age limit to have paypal is 18...

 

[Ivan]

Thing is I honestly don’t think people would like having moderators viewing DMs. We could always have a poll I suppose.

But I’d prefer to wait for other solutions

Right from the start I have assumed that moderators have been able to view direct messages

My vote is for the same moderation of DMs as for the rest

You're not running Wotapp... So you can luxuriate in a level of transparency that would sink the Big Corps

 

[Pete Thomas]

May I suggest this change?

Because DMs do not constitute Private Messages, moderators and admins reserve the right to monitor DM content to ensure compliance with the Online Safety Act 2023. Any text to include images deemed to be illegal, harmful or not complying with Café rules will be removed. Those DMs deemed to contain content of a severe enough nature in violation of the OSA2023 will be forwarded to the appropriate law enforcement authorities for their disposition.

The materials removed by the Café Admin team may be appealed by members. Those deemed suitable for reinstatement after Admin review of the appeal will be restored in part or in whole. The Café Admin team's decision is final.

Thing is I honestly don’t think people would like having moderators viewing DMs. We could always have a poll I suppose.

Having said that, I think your suggestion @ghostler could work very well, albeit I think would be better to word in a more user friendly way. Would we lose many members if we did that?

I’m trying to think what can be innocently in a DM that members would not want a mod to see, provided said mod is sworn to not sharing it publically? @Jeanette

DMs can easily just be a vehicle for making further contact via email if you want.

 

[nigeld]

As far as I am concerned, it would be fine if moderators can view DM's, but it seems like a lot of extra work if they have to check each one.

 

[Jeanette]

I’m trying to think what can be innocently in a DM that members would not want a mod to see, provided said mod is sworn to not sharing it publically? @Jeanette

DMs can easily just be a vehicle for making further contact via email if you want.

I can think of plenty that people wouldn't want a mod to see! But also even if a conversation is innocent I would feel uncomfortable if a mod read it if it was mine.

We could remove the facility and mods could share email addresses with members if requested.

For instance if someone wanted to buy through yardsale at their request we could share their email address with seller.

However some people are reluctant to share email addresses.

Difficult one

Jx

 

[Pete Thomas]

As far as I am concerned, it would be fine if moderators can view DM's, but it seems like a lot of extra work if they have to check each one.

I'd say a bit more work, not necessarily a lot.

We could remove the facility and mods could share email addresses with members if requested.

That seems a bit clunky but can be done via our Contact mods forum

I can think of plenty that people wouldn't want a mod to see!

Probably only campers [EDIT: another spellcheck slip 🙂 Should read Probably only scammers]

But also even if a conversation is innocent I would feel uncomfortable if a mod read it if it was mine.

That's why we'd have a poll. I wouldn't mind and in some other forums admins already may do this.

 

[Digger2054]

I have a memory of my time in the Navy where some vessels were fitted "for" certain equipment, whereas other were fitted "with".

In short, does having the ability to read DM's tick the box? Rather than the act of reading DM's. Couldn't a super administrator have the facility that is never rarely used.

So whilst you CAN read DM's, it's only if a need arose, by a very limited number. If there is a risk assessment, I am assuming it's very low risk compared to other platforms.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Another thought: With effective age verification, it could just be DMs of children that are moderated.

While I fully agree with the aims of the act I wouldn’t be happy sharing the info in your first point,

No I should have clarified, it won’t be sharing ID, bank details or whatever with me - it would be via an accredited and regulated agency. The kind of thing that happens if you were to buy a knife or alcohol online.

And to clarify this, age verification processes offer a range of methods from which you can choose. If you were to choose bank card it would be no different to shopping online or subscribing to the Cafe (we don't see the card details and most people are not concerned about using credit card) and if facial recognition there is no data shared at with anyone.

 

[Pete Thomas]

In short, does having the ability to read DM's tick the box? Rather than the act of reading DM's. Couldn't a super administrator have the facility that is never rarely used.

It ticks a box but ability to read would be a lower level of risk mitigation compared to monitoring . d

So whilst you CAN read DM's, it's only if a need arose, by a very limited number. If there is a risk assessment, I am assuming it's very low risk compared to other platforms.

Currently it's only if a need arose which is either:

• If one party reports a DM (in which case we only see the individual message). For example if we see there is a death threat there is no need to read any more. The member is banned and a police report filed, access to the database given to the police for forensic evidence. Iit's then up to the police to read the rest (and potentially the entire database. As a point of interest a death threat was made to me via a PM on SOTW. I reported it and the member was banned. I didn't go to the police probably because the threat was in regard to me advising that I don't think reed rotation is necessary and perhaps the threat was not deemed to be serious)
• A request is made by a bonafide law enforcement agency outside of flag from us, ie they suspect someone of a crime. This would need a warrant or court order for access to be given. A request merely from a law firm would not suffice without either of the above.

I am quite proud of our privacy policy re: DMs especially re: its transparency and clarity. Something you don't see much on other forums.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I have suggested to xenforo a system whereby only DMs involving minors could be implemented in the core software. Probably won't happen without a 3rd party addon though.

 

[Digger2054]

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[Pete Thomas]

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[Tenor Viol]

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[Pete Thomas]

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[mizmar]

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