Mouthpieces Mouthpiece to replace Yamaha 4C Alto

pauloalto · Jan 11, 2007

I am currently using a Yamaha 4C Alto mouthpiece. My teacher says I am getting a decent sound with it, and I am fairly happy with my results so far, but I am starting to feel a bit restricted.

I want to get a mouthpiece with a wider tip opening(not too big a jump!), just wondered if anyone has any advice.. I have been looking on the JodyJazz website can anyone recommend them?

Linky Lee · Jan 11, 2007

It depends what you want the mouthpiece to allow you to do easier. As that is what a mouthpiece does really.

It allows you to play darker or punchier or whatever, it won't automatically change your sound any great deal just by putting a new one on.

I can image the Yamaha being fairly bright and a bit thin tone wise.

I think you'll probably find that the JodyJazz (classic I assume) will help you fill out the tone across the registers, but won't really make a difference to the cut as it's still a relatively bright mouthpiece.

I'd advise listening to as much music as you can to picture a sound you would like to move towards, then see what you sound like in comparison. Are you darker? more focused? too loud? not loud enough etc?

Also in specifically knowing where the mouthpiece you have is restricting you, you can know a few necessities you want out of your new mouthpiece.

Come back with some more info! - then we'll all pitch in our opinions and swamp you with at least 10 different brands with a few models for each claiming every single one would be perfect for you! Hooray!

As is always said, the best bet is to take your sax to a shop, fore warm them you are coming to try mouthpieces, and if there are particular ones you want make sure they have them in stock. Then play and play and play, and be very critical.

Pete Thomas · Jan 11, 2007

I haven't played a Jodyjazz but have heard good things. I'd try one out and also try out a Vandoren Java A 35 or A45 (NOT Jumbo Java unless you have some paint that needs stripping).

Bobby G · Jan 11, 2007

[No message]

pauloalto · Jan 12, 2007

Thanks! 🙂

I'm reasonably happy with the range of soft to loud volume I can play at the moment, however I think the tone is lacking something, perhaps as you said Lee, it's quite thin (if I've understood that term correctly). However (and this is where I look stupid!) what is meant by bright or dark when referring to tone? I'd imagine it's not something you can explain, except by saying listen to the difference between certain players and that's a bright or dark tone etc??

but won't really make a difference to the cut as it's still a relatively bright mouthpiece

I'm not sure what you mean by the cut here.

The other thing I'd like in a mouthpiece is to help me bend notes more easily.

Pete, I've been refering to the facing chart on the jody jazz website(http://www.jodyjazz.com/images/facing.charts/alto.mpc.facings.pdf). I wouldn't have considered trying anything above about a .76 opening because I thought it might be too big a jump, although I only got that impression from that facing chart. From your suggestion of the Java A35, I'm thinking perhaps I should reconsider this? The jody jazz I was looking at was the classic 5 (.72 opening).

Perhaps I should record myself playing something and post up. Do you need a fairly decent microphone and sound card to capture the tone properly?

Thanks again,
Paul 🙂

Pete Thomas · Jan 12, 2007

PauloAlto wrote:

Pete, I've been refering to the facing chart on the jody jazz website(http://www.jodyjazz.com/images/facing.charts/alto.mpc.facings.pdf). I wouldn't have considered trying anything above about a .76 opening because I thought it might be too big a jump, although I only got that impression from that facing chart. From your suggestion of the Java A35, I'm thinking perhaps I should reconsider this? The jody jazz I was looking at was the classic 5 (.72 opening).

Perhaps I should record myself playing something and post up. Do you need a fairly decent microphone and sound card to capture the tone properly?

My mistake, I'd thought an A35 wasn't quite that wide. From a 4C it might be best to stick around .72 max but worth trying slightly more open (with a softer reed maybe) to see how you get on.

I'd say the microphone is more important than the soundcard, but you can get quite good mics very cheap now. e.g. Samson & Behringer.

pauloalto · Jan 13, 2007

Thanks Pete, I'll get one of those and post up a sound file.

Linky Lee · Jan 20, 2007

To be honest I can't work out what I meant by 'the cut' must of been a crazy typo.

You got any further in your mouthpiece hunt?

tris · Jan 20, 2007

Paulo,

You could be using too much embouchure pressure. This leads to a thin tone.

You can still have a huge open sound on a small opening.. ie 4 with a soft reed 2 or 2.5. The trick is to loosen off, take a bit more MP and let the reed vibrate! Get some air through that sax! more air = more sound!

The key is finding a set-up that you can control... not one that controls you. At this point in time I could easily imagine still playing the same set-up that I am using now.

pauloalto · Jan 21, 2007

Lee, I'm glad it was a typo because I felt ignorant asking what it meant. I think you should invent a meaning though because it sounded pretty cool in an esoteric kind of way! I haven't got any further other than looking at mouthpieces online. I've not had the opportunity to try any other mouthpieces yet - didn't make it to Bradford this weekend.

Tris
I'm using 2 or 2.5 Vandoren ZZ with my 4C. Somes 2s feel a bit too soft some 2.5s a bit too hard.

I don't feel that I'm playing very tight, but I do sometimes think I might be a bit too tight so I have tried slackening off further but I find this makes me play flat and my mouthpiece is nearly all the way pushed on as it is. I've also tried taking more mouthpiece in. I found this tires my lip out a lot quicker, particularly when attempting* to be expressive in a way that involves exerting more pressure on the reed (bending notes, vibrato etc). Presumably this is because my lip is further along the reed, so there is less leverage to bend it. I suppose it's a case of building up more embouchure strength to be able to handle this.

*I say attempting because my attempts at this are not that great yet!

I've not bought that mic yet but as soon as I do I'll get a recording up. I'd appreciate some criticism of my tone!

Thanks for all the advice.

Paul

tris · Jan 21, 2007

Paulo,

I did not mean alter the position of the mouthpiece on the crook. I was referring to taking more of the MP in your mouth.

It will be tiring at first as you are modifying your embouchure. I think you may find my idea on this interesting.. well they are Joe Viola's.

http://tinyurl.com/39qwtd

This link is to my beginners diary where I talked about what I believe it the best embouchure of them all. It just makes so much sense and once the strength starts to come it is just so damn easy to control the sax...

Rogerb · Jan 21, 2007

Linky_Lee wrote:
To be honest I can't work out what I meant by 'the cut' must of been a crazy typo.

Am I, perhaps, right in thinking that you meant 'cut' as in 'cutting edge'?

Some sax players... I think of David Sanborn... have such a clear, 'sharp-edged' sound that you feel it really could 'cut'.... I love that sound 🙂

Bobby G · Jan 21, 2007

This difference in embouchure and amount of mouthpiece taken in that Tris talks about may not be as extreme as you think. I've recently made some adjustments to my embouchure, none of them very big on their own, but together they are making a difference to my sound, which is now somewhat fuller and bigger, even at lower volumes.

I can't analyse it too precisely, if I try to I become very conscious of what I'm doing and it starts to fall apart, but it seems to be a combination of slightly more mouthpiece in the mouth and a bit more use of something approaching Tris's 'sideways' embouchure which means I can support the reed on my bottom lip without resting the lip on my bottom teeth. This has generally loosened things up a bit so there is now minimal pressure on the top of the mouthpiece from my top teeth. I suppose I could just be at a stage of my embouchure development where everything has got a bit stronger recently which has allowed me to slacken off a little, but aside from that taking just a little more mouthpiece into the mouth has really made the difference.

Cheers, Bob

Linky Lee · Jan 21, 2007

Here's what I think I meant:

The Jody Jazz will probably give you a fuller sound and a richer quality. What I think I meant about the cut is that it probably won't be any darker, it's still a fairly bright mouthpiece, though if you use the spoiler that comes with it you'll be brighter, louder and 'cut' through a band a lot more.

I know the sound you mean Roger, it's similar to what I get from my S80 on the Hanson. It's crystal clear, bright and has lots of attack to the articulation and a quick response.
I like that as well, it's great for Charlie Parker stuff etc. But as a standard I prefer the smoother dark sounds and really husky sounds on a Tenor.

pauloalto · Jan 22, 2007

Sorry Tris I was a bit unclear there. What I meant was if I slacken off with my embouchure the tone goes flat, and I can't compensate by pushing the mouthpiece on further because it's already on near enough all the way.

Your separate point about putting more mouthpiece in my mouth - is what I was referring to when I said it tires my lip out quicker.

I enjoyed your diary. I think I'm going to experiment a bit with my embouchure and I'll download that Walter Beasley DVD.

Paul

tris · Jan 22, 2007

Yeah it is a bit like starting over... but the Beasley embouchure is the mutts nuts. I can't understand why it is not the universal embouchure and the others are just curios.

Tone is s very personal thing and what I mean with this is that getting a new MP will not give you a fat tone... you have to learn to make a fat tone. I am very very lucky in that I have always had a great tone from the word go, I am still learning how to control it... (I am hoping to be gigging at a good level in 18months and professionally the sax can become number 1)

I think getting a new MP makes players re-evaluate things and it leads to improvements.

Bod,

Rogerb · Jan 22, 2007

FWIW, my JJDV cost me about 256 pounds(new)... a lotta money, but it has, I hope & believe, ended my 'search'... 🙂

tris · Jan 22, 2007

Wow that was an amazing price!!! Obviously you know better places to shop than me!!! 😉

I just hope it is giving you as much fun as i am having with the lambo!

Bobby G · Jan 22, 2007

Going back to taking in a little more mouthpiece - it really does only have to be a little more. Too much, and the tone goes all middly and starts to quack some.

As has been said, it's a personal thing - I also find the tone I get by taking in very little of the mouthpiece is good too, which makes adjustments for subtone much smaller.

Cheers, Bob

Rogerb · Jan 22, 2007

tris wrote:
Wow that was an amazing price!!! Obviously you know better places to shop than me!!! 😉

I just hope it is giving you as much fun as I am having with the lambo!

I think I am!
http://www.saxophon-service.de/
Mike Duchstein in Berlin, does 'em for 380 Euros, plus delivery (10E to Spain).
Comes without the fancy wooden case!