Missing Notes

lightbobarms · Mar 17, 2006

Me again, sorry folks, you probably realise that I wasn't kidding about the complete beginner (music & saxophone) position.

I got a beginners guide book with a fingering chart. Why is there no Esharp/F flat or B sharp/Cflat? Is this a saxpohone peculiarity or another of the rules/conventions of scales?

Pete Thomas · Mar 17, 2006

At 10:10:59 PM 17/03/06, lightbobarms wrote:
Me again, sorry folks, you probably realise that I wasn't kidding about the complete beginner (music & saxophone) position.

I got a beginners guide book with a fingering chart. Why is there no Esharp/F flat or B sharp/Cflat? Is this a saxpohone peculiarity or another of the rules/conventions of scales?

I moved this to here, I nknow it's not specifically jazz theory but it's theroy.

No it's not just saxophone. Ther is an E# and Fb but they sound the same as F and E.

They are actually different and there is a good reason for them having those names, but saying that in a beginners fingering chart (oer any fingering chart) would confuse more than it does enlighten unless they go chapter and verse into the theoretical reasons.

I think you'd best off for now just accept that F is the same as E# and E is the same as Fb, but maybe get some lessons in basic (or intermediate) music theory which will explain. For now just play the saxophone and enjoy the sounds.

lightbobarms · Mar 18, 2006

Any recommendations for a theory book for beginners?

You can tell where I have got to with the video from the next puzzle (though I wouldn't claim that I am on top of all the earlioer bits); Why have all the sharps in Minor harmonics as accidentals rather than in the key signature? Doesn't it make F major and D minor indistinguishable by the key signtures?

Pete Thomas · Mar 18, 2006

At 3:08:04 PM 18/03/06, lightbobarms wrote:
Any recommendations for a theory book for beginners?

You can tell where I have got to with the video from the next puzzle (though I wouldn't claim that I am on top of all the earlioer bits); Why have all the sharps in Minor harmonics as accidentals rather than in the key signature? Doesn't it make F major and D minor indistinguishable by the key signtures?

AS lot of minor tunes have melodies that use the natural (aeolian) minor as well as the dorian and harmonic minor. The harmonic minor is more a scale than something to base a whole tune on, so it would be weird to have the accidentals added to the key sig and cancel them out all over the place. It would also be more complicated to learn. Also a lot of tunes go between the major and relative minor.

Good question though...

philippe · Mar 19, 2006

it would be weird to have the accidentals added to the key sig and cancel them out all over the place. It would also be more complicated to learn. Also a lot of tunes go between the major and relative minor.

It has been done though, some contemporary music is written with strange keys signatures that reflect the particular minor scale they're derived from.

Pete, correct me if I'm wrong but I would also say that none of the chords derived from the harmonic minor scale can really function as a 'home' chord, and are used mainly as passing chords on the way to a stronger (minor) resolution, which would be derived from the Aeolian mode, and so the piece as a whole would have the same key signature as the relative major...

Philippe

Pete Thomas · Mar 19, 2006

At 12:18:29 PM 19/03/06, Philippe wrote:
> it would be weird to have the accidentals added to the key sig and cancel them out all over the place. It would also be more complicated to learn. Also a lot of tunes go between the major and relative minor.

It has been done though, some contemporary music is written with strange keys signatures that reflect the particular minor scale they're derived from.

Pete, correct me if I'm wrong but I would also say that none of the chords derived from the harmonic minor scale can really function as a 'home' chord, and are used mainly as passing chords on the way to a stronger (minor) resolution, which would be derived from the Aeolian mode, and so the piece as a whole would have the same key signature as the relative major...

I wouldn't say you are wrong, but are you talking about a tonic minor derived from the ahrmonic minor? i.e. the minor chord with major 7. It can sound good but only in certain circumstances. Very often a minor 7 or plain triad works best.

Minor harmony is really only there to annoy people.

philippe · Mar 20, 2006

I wouldn't say you are wrong, but are you talking about a tonic minor derived from the ahrmonic minor? i.e. the minor chord with major 7. It can sound good but only in certain circumstances. Very often a minor 7 or plain triad works best.

Yes, for example. Basically the idea is that if you base your harmony on anything other than the aeolian mode it sounds a bit out.
P.

Mikey · Apr 4, 2006

At 4:28:31 PM 19/03/06, Pete wrote:
> At 12:18:29 PM 19/03/06, Philippe wrote:
> > it would be weird to have the accidentals added to the key sig and cancel them out all over the place. It would also be more complicated to learn. Also a lot of tunes go between the major and relative minor.
>
> It has been done though, some contemporary music is written with strange keys signatures that reflect the particular minor scale they're derived from.
>
> Pete, correct me if I'm wrong but I would also say that none of the chords derived from the harmonic minor scale can really function as a 'home' chord, and are used mainly as passing chords on the way to a stronger (minor) resolution, which would be derived from the Aeolian mode, and so the piece as a whole would have the same key signature as the relative major...

I wouldn't say you are wrong, but are you talking about a tonic minor derived from the ahrmonic minor? i.e. the minor chord with major 7. It can sound good but only in certain circumstances. Very often a minor 7 or plain triad works best.

Minor harmony is really only there to annoy people.

Just checking, triad is 3 notes that are root, 3rd, and 5th? (beginner theory sorry)