Major minor blues confusion

[spike]

Any sax player who is into blues, rock, R&B, pop etc., it doesn't matter what kind of music you're into you should, and in fact must be fluent in all keys.
It doesn't matter. - When you're doing scale exercises, chord exercises, 251's, and so on, or whatever, if the book, your tutor, the man upstairs or the monkey on yer back says practice this in all keys, you should practice it in all keys! Basta! - until yer tongue bleeds, yer fingers ache and yer brain goes into melt down.

 

[Eoe]

It has to do with open strings and the lowest note..guitar the low open is E and then you got A great keys. On bass I play a seven string so B,E,A are great. OK yea I am seeing a lot of natural notes means a lot of hard fingerings for the sax and I know this from school. But for me it is not that...some keys just for a alto are not good because of range . I think E,Eb, F Dm, all (I am talking concert pitch not written) is a good key for improv it puts the third and fith in good tonal positions..you are so limited to good tones on the sax you have only one choice where on the seven string bass I have several tonal variations for the same note. And octive choices.. So key is so important to get just the right tone for the song.

 

[Campbell]

Plus memphis Soul Stew King Curtis. Mind you I think it changes to A when the tenor solo starts

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Good Golly Miss Molly

 

[Nick Wyver]

Any sax player who is into blues, rock, R&B, pop etc., it doesn't matter what kind of music you're into you should, and in fact must be fluent in all keys.
It doesn't matter. - When you're doing scale exercises, chord exercises, 251's, and so on, or whatever, if the book, your tutor, the man upstairs or the monkey on yer back says practice this in all keys, you should practice it in all keys! Basta! - until yer tongue bleeds, yer fingers ache and yer brain goes into melt down.

Now tell me how many times you've played in a rock band and the guitarist has said, "This one's in Ab"?

 

[Campbell]

It sounds to me like the sax in Memphis Soul Stew is panned to the centre so it might be possible to remove it using Transcribe!

 

[Campbell]

Now tell me how many times you've played in a rock band and the guitarist has said, "This one's in Ab"?

Yeah, but there's also those pesky vocalists.

 

[Jazzaferri]

Now tell me how many times you've played in a rock band and the guitarist has said, "This one's in Ab"?

Never happened in my 50 years of playing.

In my gypsy jazz group we are all over the map as we have a vocalist and her range drives the key.

 

[spike]

Now tell me how many times you've played in a rock band and the guitarist has said, "This one's in Ab"?

Not long ago, - it's not classic rock but "Sing it Back" by Moloko - Ab

 

[thomsax]

We talked about this concert Ab on "Blues Key of The Month".

Jr Walker did some songs in Ab: Shotgun, Homecookin', Twist Lackawanna, Cleo's Mood .... . But this songs are often moved to other keys.

The key concert Ab has always been popular on tenor (key of Bb) due to the construction on the tenor saxophone. The low Bb is important to blow and Ab concert is sonorous on tenor. Odd key for the Rock(sax)players. Even the bluesbands seems to avoid this key.

 

[spike]

I seem to remember a few Commodores numbers are in Ab. Probably attributable to Lionel Richie's vocals.
I know where Nick's coming from and that Ab is an avoid key for "some" gitteristos.
Still there's a whole lotta stuff in Ab, it's pinky heavy on the bottom of the horn but it's a cool key to play in.

 

[Campbell]

Transcribe! does remove the sax from Memphis Soul Stew. There is a transcription at:

Sax on the Web > Rock&Roll > Classic Solos - Transcripts

 

[davidsol]

We talked about this concert Ab on "Blues Key of The Month".

Jr Walker did some songs in Ab: Shotgun, Homecookin', Twist Lackawanna, Cleo's Mood .... . But this songs are often moved to other keys.

The key concert Ab has always been popular on tenor (key of Bb) due to the construction on the tenor saxophone. The low Bb is important to blow and Ab concert is sonorous on tenor. Odd key for the Rock(sax)players. Even the bluesbands seems to avoid this key.

If I may jump in, some groups will de-tune their guitars one step in order to help the singer, particularly when on tour or gigging a lot and some guitarists prefer to keep their guitars de-tuned so as to preserve the neck.

Someone earlier said to play blues like a harmonica however with a blues harp usually one uses a key 5 semitones higher than the key of the song e.g for a song in concert E you use an A harp but am i right in assuming this is not the case with the sax ? I'm a beginner and haven't tried any blues yet but I do play harmonica(s). Thanks for any tips.

 

[Bernie]

Yeah that's right Davidsol. To play blues on the harmonica you play in what I call the key of suck, but that is irrelevant to the sax. I think the suggestion was that one should listen to the notes harp players play as a guide to the sound of the blues.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Because the blues harp is a diatonic mouth organ, using a major scale, most of the notes in the blues scale are missing if you pick the same key harp. You can bend a semitone or so but that 7b would be a challenge

I find it easier think of it as a fourth up. So a blues in C would use a F harp to have the Bb. I've often wondered if using a tone down would work for a minor blues. C minor blues using a Bb harp would give the Bb and the Eb. Never tried it. I remember seeing an old black American blues harpist at a local club and he had 12 harps in Mexican style bandoleers.

Ab is a lovely key. Very romantic. Just a closer walk with thee, one of the old New Orleans tunes usually in Ab. All the things you are and Sophisticated Lady another two famous ones.

Jr Walker could really play, and he was the band leader, soloist and vocalist. I'm guessing he picked the key.

 

[Eoe]

Every harmonica player I have ever played with came with a lot of them and always used three or four and that long chromantic thing. You shouldn't worry about how guitar players tune. You have standerd tuners and what I call traditional tuners traditional tuners tune like they want even make up their tunings. There are guys that tune standard guys that tune Eb because it feels slinky and Hendrix did it..I know a cat that plays the eight string electric and he has seven acustics all tuned different. He records in Nashville and tunes a acoustic to the key of the song.they are all divided up to some kind of Scientific scale length for different keys. Both my flamenco teachers tuned different and encourage me to make up my own tuning. I am back to standerd tuning although I can easily make up a tuning if I wanted to I play extended range instruments works better to keep that standerd core easier to buy string sets etc. .I think my point is the guitar player should be good at transposing the instrument is easy to transpose on and it is what we do.

 

[Eoe]

Back to harmonicas from my observation is if it is like Am they pull out harps for Cmajor etc

 

[Campbell]

Every harmonica player I have ever played with came with a lot of them and always used three or four and that long chromantic thing. You shouldn't worry about how guitar players tune. You have standerd tuners and what I call traditional tuners traditional tuners tune like they want even make up their tunings. There are guys that tune standard guys that tune Eb because it feels slinky and Hendrix did it..I know a cat that plays the eight string electric and he has seven acustics all tuned different. He records in Nashville and tunes a acoustic to the key of the song.they are all divided up to some kind of Scientific scale length for different keys. Both my flamenco teachers tuned different and encourage me to make up my own tuning. I am back to standerd tuning although I can easily make up a tuning if I wanted to I play extended range instruments works better to keep that standerd core easier to buy string sets etc. .I think my point is the guitar player should be good at transposing the instrument is easy to transpose on and it is what we do.

I love your writing.

 

[Jazzaferri]

Jr. played lots of tunes in Bb. I wonder if part of it was the V of Bb was on horns of his day the top non alternate fingering note.

 

[davidsol]

Back to harmonicas from my observation is if it is like Am they pull out harps for Cmajor etc

Depending on the song, for say, Am, you could use a C, D, G or Em blues harp, possibly others but I'm not that good at it. I always go to gigs with 9 major keys and and 4 minor keys but no sharps/flats to if someone has detuned their guitar, there's not much I can play along with. Fortunately I mostly accompany myself so it's only a problem when trying to jam.Thanks to all for your comments. David

 

[thomsax]

I seem to remember a few Commodores numbers are in Ab. Probably attributable to Lionel Richie's vocals.
I know where Nick's coming from and that Ab is an avoid key for "some" gitteristos.
Still there's a whole lotta stuff in Ab, it's pinky heavy on the bottom of the horn but it's a cool key to play in.

"Kicking It Old School School In Ab Concert" . For some years ago Andrew Clark played a Tiny Grimes song "Romance Without Romance" in concet Ab. A song that also Charlie Parker played. It's fun song with vocal. Both Coltrane and Parker did more "easylistening" stuff as well. Andrew is doing the song in a differnt groove and key changes. Both band and audience like it!

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