Saxophones Looking to find age and value of my Vintage Kohlert Saxophone

[JayeNM]

Is there any way to verify other than its look that it is a Regent/Bixley? It doesn't say so on the bell under the Kohlert labeling.

Right ...if I were selling it myself, I'd say " this horn is what Saxpics refers to as a 'Kohlert-Kohlert' - although it is unlikely that is what the company called it. It is almost identical to a Regent, with a few keywork styling exceptions."

I think that is as close as you would be able to get. I would not call it a Regent or Bix since it doesn't literally read that on engraving.

Unless @spike @thomsax article makes a note of the Regents vs. the Kohlert-Kohlerts (can one of you translate to confirm ?)...this may be best we can do

I like these horns....

 

[JayeNM]

I see you are in Denver. I am in Las Cruces, NM.

If I were you, I'd take it to a tech and get an assessment of work needed to bring it up to playing speed.

It looks like it is in Cherry condition, physically. So I would put value at $325 tops non-playing, or $550ish playing.

If the tech estimate came back at more than, say....$200, I doubt it would be worth you investing in the servicing work...and you might be better off trying to sell for $300-325 as-is. In the current market, however, it might not get $300 non-serviced. But if the servicing estimate came back at like $120...then I would proceed with that work and you can definitely pricetag it at $475-550.

Original case....sadly, I would say it would matter if what you were selling was a 'grail' type horn (King Super 20, Conn 6M, etc) but in this instance, in the US market...the case is not gonna increase the value much if anything. The absence of any case would decrease value a bit, however.

Alternative: if you wished, you could sell it on consignment with me (www.2ndending.com) as I tend to have an established rep and get a lot of views, and buyers have more confidence with an established shop than just an individual seller sometimes. (Not being a shark or going for a gratuitous plug here, I would not offer if we weren't so close geographically.)

So I hope this provides some useful info for you

 

[scotsman]

Heres some pics of my loaned out one if it helps..Hi JayeNM..Re my post on the 55. Slip of the keyboard I'm afraid. I meant the Kohlert 57. They seem to be collected by players (including me) who have the 57 Tenor. I'm guilty as charged!! Regards

 

[JayeNM]

Heres some pics of my loaned out one if it helps..Hi JayeNM..Re my post on the 55. Slip of the keyboard I'm afraid. I meant the Kohlert 57. They seem to be collected by players (including me) who have the 57 Tenor. I'm guilty as charged!! Regards

Cool. Nice horns. I think the 5X series Kohlerts ARE their best series as well, and yes the 57 and 58 have the more 'modern' table so those are arguably their best, I would lean towards saying. I like the 55's too, although more old-school with the left bellkeys......

 

[CelticShandra]

Thanks for the info, thats really helpful. We got really lucky as this piece has been pristinely maintained and plays like a dream. It was a gift to my daughter and she doesn't want to play (she played a bit in the 7th grade and lost interest) and I honestly haven't played in more than 24 years, so we've decided to sell it and are so grateful for the assessment. I have contacted someone who has contacts nationwide and am awaiting their response, if you know of anyone in the Denver Metro area thats is reputable I'd appreciate the contact information.

I see you are in Denver. I am in Las Cruces, NM.

If I were you, I'd take it to a tech and get an assessment of work needed to bring it up to playing speed.

It looks like it is in Cherry condition, physically. So I would put value at $325 tops non-playing, or $550ish playing.

If the tech estimate came back at more than, say....$200, I doubt it would be worth you investing in the servicing work...and you might be better off trying to sell for $300-325 as-is. In the current market, however, it might not get $300 non-serviced. But if the servicing estimate came back at like $120...then I would proceed with that work and you can definitely pricetag it at $475-550.

Original case....sadly, I would say it would matter if what you were selling was a 'grail' type horn (King Super 20, Conn 6M, etc) but in this instance, in the US market...the case is not gonna increase the value much if anything. The absence of any case would decrease value a bit, however.

Alternative: if you wished, you could sell it on consignment with me (www.2ndending.com) as I tend to have an established rep and get a lot of views, and buyers have more confidence with an established shop than just an individual seller sometimes. (Not being a shark or going for a gratuitous plug here, I would not offer if we weren't so close geographically.)

So I hope this provides some useful info for you

 

[thomsax]

Here is "translation" of Kohlert story. I have probably made lots of mistakes. So please, don't me judge me too hard.

- After the expropriation (CZ state took over Kohlert) in 1945 Max and Ernst (Daniels sons) and two sons of Rudolf carried on with the business. 1946/1947 the company “Kohlert & Co” (in “Swabian) was rebuilt.

Together with some coworkers from Graslitz initially (mostlyl US forces)
instruments were repaired and later on saxophones were manufactured under the names/brands “Kohlert 55”, Kohlert 57”, “Kohlert 58” or “Regent” (Förvisade?) ????.

The saxes had rolled tone holes, early models had the bell keys on the left side of the bell, and the key guards were similar (close) early Martin/USA saxes (not with split bell keys, my note). There were also built single/few bass saxes in Winnenden.

In 1953/1954 there were around 100 employed ( c 30 of these were “homeworkers”) reported, some years later there were 138 qualified employees incl “homeworkers”.

The good relationship with USA (long term and price-controlled delivery commitment) agreements with american wholesalers (Conn and White among others) and when the prices went up for material Kohlert was not compensated and they tried to cut costs by machine manufacturing process/moments instead of handicraft. Few and long-termed efforts failed and just a few parts could be made by machine “out sourching”

In the mid 60’s the american Saltman bought company and the Kohlert brand. The Kohlert Regent stamped with Kohlert Winnenden is not a sax that were made in Germany. Just the name???

After all efforts to save the company it went bankrupt in 1966.

In 1967 the hobby - multi instrumentalist Fritz Pfannenschwarz bought the company för 40 000 DM and moved the company to his hometown Nordheim close to Heilbronn (Baden- Württenberg) and continued the production . 16 years later Firma an die Kruel & Moosman GmbH (limited) in Waiblingen bought the company from Pfannenschwarz. By then there were just 6 employees left at Kohlerts. -

I have seen a Kohlert and a Hohner with soft soldered on tones with bevelled tone holes rims à la Martin. And I've seen a Tone King (Keilwerth Nauheim) with tone holes close to Comm tone holes. Looks lie an Olds Super All saxes with bell keys on the left side. I have often wondered how Martin could make a student sax with soft solded toneholes in the late 60's? I doesn't make sense to me.

 

[thomsax]

The part with Kohlert Regent is not clear to me. I don't understand if the saxes were made in Winnenden, parts were made by other companies, or the saxes were made by another firm????? There are some words I don' know and hard for me to translate. After all, I don't care so much where and who made the good saxes.

 

[CelticShandra]

Anyone know anything about this mouthpiece? I don't know if I should include it seperate or together. Thanks

 

[Ivan]

View attachment 13948

Do these work?

That engraving is very appealing

 

[DavidUK]

I'm getting confused...
The OP's photos show a Kohlert, badged Kohlert.
To me it looks like a Kohlert '57 model. Is it something else? Is that what's being questioned?

As for stencils, another subject, I had a 'Stecher Wein' alto which was a stencil of a Kohlert '57 and looked very similar to the OP's photos (r/h pinky kets differ, likely more)...

An unfinished project I sold it here for around the £200 mark: SOLD - Kohlert 57 Alto

 

[DavidUK]

you talk about the original post, my answer ( as some other ones ) are based on post #30

Ah... that should maybe have been the start of a separate thread, so as not to confuse.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Ah... that should maybe have been the start of a separate thread, so as not to confuse.

I have now moved some posts to new thread here. I was also very confused so hope I got it right:

See:

Saxophones - Kohlert "Best in the World" alto

I am 'considering' buying a Kohlert "Best in the World" alto bearing the Kielwerth letters inside the "Best in the World" logo with the serial # 245XX just above this logo. I just am having difficulty in nailing down the year of manufacture. Any Kohlhert admirers have any information on this...

cafesaxophone.com

 

[turf3]

View attachment 13965
Anyone know anything about this mouthpiece? I don't know if I should include it seperate or together. Thanks

Does the mouthpiece itself have any markings? Looks like a generic plastic piece, which probably plays OK but has only trivial value. If that proves to be the case, separating it from the horn you probably wouldn't get more than $10-20 for it. I'd probably leave it with the horn, but that's just because it's easier. Whatever you choose to do, although you've got a pretty good horn in very good shape, and a serviceable mouthpiece with it, in other words with a standard minor service it's ready to play, it's just not worth very much money, so don't spend $1000 worth of time and effort on a $300 sale.