Listening but not paying attention...........

[bererunner]

In 1978, Gerry Rafferty released the single "Baker Street" which included "That" sax solo by Raphael Ravenscroft........brilliant.
Over the years, with the help of a couple of beers, i dare say i've air guitar'd and air sax'd (if there is such a thing) to this record, and like every one else of a certain age they do that single along thing to the sax solo, "da, da, da, da da, daaaaaaaaa" etc etc and because we've done this for the last 29 years we think we know the tune inside out and back to front.
Now that i own a super shiny saxophone i feel obliged to pay tribute to Raphael by attempting the solo that he played so well.
Sheet music, on the stand, Trevor James alto hanging on my neotech strap, fingers nice and relaxed, quick read of the music before starting, "da, da, da, da da, da da, daaaaaaa, thats not right, two extra notes in there. It just does't fit into the music i have in my memory. That can't be right, but i played the track through on the computer, and there they were, 2 notes i'd skipped for the last 29 years. I'm still finding it hard to play the solo with the two extra notes, while i'm playing the music in my mind.
I'm sure that eventually i'll manage to get the extra notes in there, but i'm sure that next time the track comes on the radio i'll leave the extra notes out.
Maybe it shoud be called "Ba,aa,ker Street"
Listening but not paying attention...........

 

[philthd]

yes

its da da da da-da da-y-daaaaa

sadly i hate the tune cos people kept asking me for it when i was busking and i had to get more and more exasperated in my refusal

 

[Pjonah]

Its a good point, we tend to learn things and believe we have it right.

Then some years later the music is placed in front of you and shazam....what the?

I know this as many of Gerry Mulligan and Paul Desmonds music transcribed looks to have either too many or wrong notes added.

A classic mystake was pointed out to me by my sister one day, I was singing the lyrics to a song and she asked me to repeat what I had just sung, she then handed me the lyrics in print, whoops! I was so totally wrong, I didn't think to question the content of what I was singing just got it fixed in my mind that was what it should be!

And its the same with playing sax solos, my band used to do a number of Sade tracks, nameley Smooth Operator, I wasn't a Sade fan and so played what I remembered of the solo, even now when I hear the original played on the radio I still feel surprised that I had a different version of the piece.

I guess it was me putting my mark on the piece and that aint no bad thing, gets round copyright issues too!

Have you got Raphael's Complete Saxophone Player (Omnibus Edition) highly recommended.

Simon

 

[jambo]

Hi Simion

I have seen that book for sale in loads of places. What it got in it?

 

[Pjonah]

Jambo wrote:
Hi Simion

I have seen that book for sale in loads of places. What it got in it?

Its three books in one, beginners to pretty sharp cookies.

Very good at explaining improvisation and blues progressions.

Plus its got a shed load of contemporary and older classics, well worth the money IMHO.

Simon

 

[jambo]

Sounds interesting

 

[philthd]

i had baker street in the john harle book, which i dont recommend but think i needed to have for a grade 6 peice or something.


but the piano into to one of the songs is still what i play if i have to soundcheck a keyboard, so maybe it was of some use

 

[Saxlicker]

bererunner wrote:
quick read of the music before starting, "da, da, da, da da, da da, daaaaaaa, thats not right, two extra notes in there. It just does't fit into the music i have in my memory. That can't be right, but i played the track through on the computer, and there they were, 2 notes i'd skipped for the last 29 years. I'm still finding it hard to play the solo with the two extra notes, while i'm playing the music in my mind.
I'm sure that eventually i'll manage to get the extra notes in there, but i'm sure that next time the track comes on the radio i'll leave the extra notes out.

Yes! Memory, usually quite a good friend to us all, can be public enemy #1 if you're not careful.

My experience of this has been to improvise over tunes that are suggested for our band set that have simple sax parts. I do this sometimes to make them more interesting when I'm practising.
Then low and be hold if they make it into our set I can't string the original three note phrase together.... becuase memory takes over.
BE WARNED! :whistle:

 

[bobk]

This is part of a big music reading issue for me. As has been mentioned in another thread, for me the hard bit of reading dots is reading the rhythm, not reading the notes. If I play a piece which I've heard before from the dots then I'll use the dots to help me with the notes but I'll try and remember the rhythm - no good for tackling the hard bit of learning to read well. Apropos this I'd suggest that tutor books with CDs are often not as good an idea as they might first appear.

cheers,

Bob

 

[Lisa]

I know what you mean too,

I've been trying to play some really classic tunes like "Something Stupid", "We Have all The Time in The World" and "From Russia with Love" and have been having to dig out the CDs to hear the actual songs and realise that what's in my head is not actually the way the tunes go.

One thing this does help me with though is rhythm, because I'm forced to look at the dots on the page and work out how long they're supposed to be played in relation to all the others alongside them! Sometimes when playing a tune you're staring at the notes on the page, but not really reading them - just playing it from memory...Until your memory gets it wrong!

Lisa

 

[bobk]

One result of this thread is that I bought Raphael Ravencroft's "The Complete Saxophone Player (Omnibus Edition)". For me at least, it is utterly fantastic - very clear explanations, lots of songs I know and like - it starts very easy (I think I could have skipped book 1 of the 4 in it, but it is still good to have it as part of the omnibus for the breathing tips) and gets way beyond me but in a way that give me hope of getting there in the end. Very very highly recommended.

cheers,

Bob

 

[Bobby G]

That does sound like an interesting book Bob.

Memory can be a good thing if it's wrong, sometimes - it's one way music can develop and be made into something more personal, I suppose. Then again, it can hurt your ears if someone is playing a song, usually on guitar or piano, and it's obvious they've worked it out by 'playing along with the record' in their head, and it's just plain wrong. The one example I can think of off the top of my head is Bauhaus's murdering of Ziggy Stardust. Apart from being a horrible record, the chord sequence sounds horrible too.

Cheers, Bob

 

[tris]

For me what my ear tell me is the number 1 thing. There are a lot of not so accurate transcriptions out there, believe me. Just because it is written down does not mean that it is right. Plus once you get into learning improvised solos from book like the Parker Omnibook the transcriptions can't actually convey what is going on... they are an approximation.

This is an interesting point... what we want to hear. I was discussing Coltrane the other day. I was comparing him to impressionistic art. What we perceive his solos to be as opposed to the actual notes he was playing. When i first started I was getting all the accented (important) notes right but the in between ones were off on occasion.