Lester Young? No thanks, ZOOT please

[jake_honeywill]

Sorry Everyone, I know he is the all time king etc..
Just don't particularly like it - not slagging him off or trying to be clever but I just don't get it. Yeh I know 'he was the master of creating melodies and doing really unusual phrasing that crossed bars at odd times etc (I'm just repeating what I've heard other people say)'. (Maybe in a few years I'll understand)
Perhaps its more about the history and the fact that he was a pioneer etc..( i don't really know a huge amount about the history)

Tell you what, I know I got the tendency to fixate on one player at a time but I am convinced that the all round sweetest sound, tone, taste (like just the right amount of vibrato at the end of the note) and most particularly sublime sense of timing (no, I really mean that about he timing) award goes to ZOOT SIMS.
(even more subtle than Stan Getz although SG is probably a more sophisticated and seems to do a lot more twiddly-odd-combinations of phrasing and notes etc - has anyone heard SIGNAL by Jimmey Raney & SG?)
Isn't Zoot rather under-rated?

I know ZOOT might be considered a bit old fashioned and players like SOnny Rollins are 'Cooler' but b***** to that.
DOn't get me wrong, I dont really dig Zoot when the whole recording seems to be him just going over the top (somebody loves me, memories of you) but when he's toned down a bit by other players (probably by interesting and complex arrangements actually) I've never heard anything so good.
Like he make's it sound so easy. Has anyone heard ZOOT SIMS / AL COHN / TONY SCOTT / TRIGGER ALPERT: ' east coast sounds'?
MOst of the solos are really short. Its fantastic - not over the top.
I think it's the arrangements that really get me going.

Also has anyone heard 'Leavin' Town' (Gerry Mulligan, Complete 1950-1952 Prestige Studio Recordings)
The track is listed in the GM biography as 'The Chubby Jackson All Star Band' and Zoot is listed with Georgie Auld on tenor - sounds like Zoot to me dude,

Is there anyone out there who shares the same opinion or do you all think I'm daft?

Perhaps you could suggest another player that I haven't discovered yet?

CHEERS
jake

SET Up:
RUsty transit van
Knives and pots and pans
A tenor Sax (not telling - it's all yellow and shiny like gold though)
A mouth piece, a reed that I've been using since last october, a ligature that I paid nearly 20 quid for. Books.

 

[Bobby G]

Hey Jake, it's nice to see you back again, you've been gone a long while!

I don't know a great deal of Zoot's stuff, but like you say it's kinda pleasingly old-fashioned which is a good thing. It's like you know where you are with these people, their style is easy (but that doesn't mean easy to do, necessarily) but not bland and just goes straight into you. Gerry Mulligan's another one like that, as is Paul Desmond, Chet Baker (as long as he don't sing!), Bob Brookmeyer etc. Again, not necessarily the coolest, but I have a lot of time for them.

 

[old_git]

Saw Zoot back in the early sixties, possibly a JATP tour. He did 'Willow Weep for Me', swung so much no one would have noticed if the rhythm section was nuked.

 

[rhysonsax]

There's a massive difference between Lester Young up to early 40s and after that point - apparently due to tough experiences in the US army.

Listen to him in 1930s in small groups with Teddy Wilson, with Billie Holiday and with the Basie band and he just dances and soars with imagination.

I find listening to Lester's recordings of the late 40s and the 50s mainly a sad experience and if you didn't know what had gone before, you might count him as a third rater.

Some more suggestions of people to listen to (all tenor players): Ben Webster, Budd Johnson, Stanley Turrentine, Tony Coe, Andy Sheppard, Wardell Gray, Lucky Thompson, Coleman Hawkins, Don Byas, Hank Mobley, Dexter Gordon ............................

Rhys

 

[jake_honeywill]

yeh, Zoot's vocals are a bit iffy too (i can't get started)

Bobby G wrote:
Hey Jake, it's nice to see you back again, you've been gone a long while!

I don't know a great deal of Zoot's stuff, but like you say it's kinda pleasingly old-fashioned which is a good thing. It's like you know where you are with these people, their style is easy (but that doesn't mean easy to do, necessarily) but not bland and just goes straight into you. Gerry Mulligan's another one like that, as is Paul Desmond, Chet Baker (as long as he don't sing!), Bob Brookmeyer etc. Again, not necessarily the coolest, but I have a lot of time for them.

 

[jake_honeywill]

thanks for the suggestions - I havent checked out Hank, Andy shep, Lucky thonpson, tony coe or budd johnson - the others I have.
dexter being my fave probably.
If dexter Gordon's TIMING was a school pupil he would turn up late to classes, still in his pyjamas, not having brushed his hair, without having done his homework, with the most terrible handwriting and not much regard for the teacher. He would lean back in his chair almost to the point of tipping over backwards, not take any notes and still get straight A's (event though the teacher would be trying to find opportunities to 'mark him down') N
Naughty sax player..(fat, flat 3rd (sharp 9 if you must) over Ab7 bar 4 of 1st chorus of body and soul without much warning)

 

[Bobby G]

Oh yes, Hank Mobley is well worth listening to as well. Not the coolest maybe, and has been described as 'a musician's musician', whatever that might mean. Sonny Stitt ain't bad either.

 

[jonf]

Love Zoot. Pi$$ed most of the time, of course. That's Zoot, not me. Well, at leeast these days, anyway.

 

[visionari1]

Zoot Sims playing with Joe Pass these numbers.

Come Rain or Come Shine
Moonlight in Vermont
Blues for Two
Poor Butterfly
Black and Blue
Remember

These are oldies, and all the same meter and feel, absolutly invented and defined the cruisy sounds..... in my humble opinion.

Cheers

 

[Bobby G]

How cool is Joe Pass? Not very, probably, he looks like a bank manager. But just like Ziggy Stardust - boy, could he play guitar.

Marvellous

 

[visionari1]

Yer right there bob... looks like we had some similar tastes in Music....still on for a busking raft trip down some slow easy river in the cotswolds...... its gotta be magic!

Could you stand in as Joe Pass, (before we're cut off at the pass)

Cheers.

 

[Bobby G]

I'll have to brush up on my jazz chords, at the moment I'd be closer to Joe Fail than Joe Pass.