Playing the saxophone Learn to play by ear or by reading music

[BigMartin]

Surprising how many opinions on how to play come from persons who can't actually play.

The ones who can play don't need opinions. They already know how to play. The rest of us have to try and figure it out 😉. And I suspect the answer is (somewhat) different for each of us.

 

[trimmy]

Surprising how many opinions on how to play come from persons who can't actually play.

Haha so so true !

 

[Jeanette]

Well that was an interesting experience. I've just been playing a tune whilst reading the score. It was one I played for the first time the last time the Café Septet met. I know the tune so can hear it in my head as I'm playing. I found my fingers were finding the notes some of the time in anticipation of what I knew should be coming next before my eyes had fallen on that part of the score. I haven't played it enough for it to come from memory.

I have noticed this in the past, that sometimes I hear what I'm expecting to play next and my fingers find the note.

So I am going to conclude that a reader will probably find it easier to learn to play by ear than an ear player that never looks at a score does to read. Your brain and ears are connecting all the time with what your fingers are doing. If you don't look at a score your brain cannot absorb that information 🙂

Jx

 

[richardr]

Your brain and ears are connecting all the time with what your fingers are doing. If you don't look at a score your brain cannot absorb that information

I'm not sure what this means. Ideally playing by ear is where you know what you want to play and you play it right without any conscious thought process (I'm getting there, but haven't arrived yet). If you don't look at the score your brain cannot absorb its content even if you can read, but that's so obvious that I'm sure you mean something else. What?
Learning to read music where you can play by ear is analogous to learning to read and write when you already speak the lingo. Some people will find that harder than others and the younger you start, the easier it is.

 

[Jeanette]

I'm not sure what this means. Ideally playing by ear is where you know what you want to play and you play it right without any conscious thought process (I'm getting there, but haven't arrived yet). If you don't look at the score your brain cannot absorb its content even if you can read, but that's so obvious that I'm sure you mean something else. What?

It was a supporting statement to the earlier part of the paragraph

So I am going to conclude that a reader will probably find it easier to learn to play by ear than an ear player that never looks at a score does to read. Your brain and ears are connecting all the time with what your fingers are doing. If you don't look at a score your brain cannot absorb that information 🙂

where I was trying to make the point that a reader is already learning to play by ear. But an ear player without a score isn't learning to read....apologies for not being clear 🙂

 

[Tenor Viol]

Well that was an interesting experience. I've just been playing a tune whilst reading the score. It was one I played for the first time the last time the Café Septet met. I know the tune so can hear it in my head as I'm playing. I found my fingers were finding the notes some of the time in anticipation of what I knew should be coming next before my eyes had fallen on that part of the score. I haven't played it enough for it to come from memory.

I have noticed this in the past, that sometimes I hear what I'm expecting to play next and my fingers find the note.

So I am going to conclude that a reader will probably find it easier to learn to play by ear than an ear player that never looks at a score does to read. Your brain and ears are connecting all the time with what your fingers are doing. If you don't look at a score your brain cannot absorb that information 🙂

Jx

You're probably beginning to develop the skill of being able to 'read ahead'. You are sufficiently comfortable playing that you are relaxed enough to be able to (possibly subconsciously) take in what's coming along next and not just the current note. I can do that when singing and to a lesser degree on cello and sax.

 

[Jeanette]

You're probably beginning to develop the skill of being able to 'read ahead'. You are sufficiently comfortable playing that you are relaxed enough to be able to (possibly subconsciously) take in what's coming along next and not just the current note. I can do that when singing and to a lesser degree on cello and sax.

No I do that sometimes but this was the next line down and I had definitely not read it 🙂

Jx

 

[nigeld]

Ideally playing by ear is where you know what you want to play and you play it right without any conscious thought process

Getting rid of conscious thought processes is not specific to playing by ear - it also happens if someone learns a piece by heart, and it happens for good sight readers, who can turn visual patterns of notes into finger movements without conscious thought.

Playing by ear is turning sounds into finger movements.
Playing from notes is turning pictures into finger movements.

In either case, the beginner has to use conscious thought processes and the expert doesn't have to.
And in either case, it is possible to learn a piece, so that the external stimulus is no longer required.

 

[richardr]

where I was trying to make the point that a reader is already learning to play by ear. But an ear player without a score isn't learning to read....apologies for not being clear

Don't apologise: retired lawyers are dense.
Are you sure that what you've described is your fingers connecting with the tune you have in your head or is it "finger memory", where after you've practiced a tune enough, your fingers know where to go because they've done it so many times before?
It's a good many months since you last made a rather public attempt to play by ear and maybe in the meantime your playing has advanced far enough for what you previously found so difficult to be rather easier. Please will you have another go at playing a simple tune from memory alone and see if it's any easier. That would provide evidence in support of or against (not absolute proof or refutation of) your theory and if you're right, you'll be on the way to acquiring a skill that you want but previously found too difficult.
By way of encouragement, there's a tune that I practiced intensively a few months ago but I couldn't avoid mistakes. I abandoned it but had another go couple of days ago and got it right almost straight off - it's a case of practice in other areas bringing unexpected improvements and I think the same may apply to you.

 

[Jeanette]

where after you've practiced a tune enough, your fingers know where to go because they've done it so many times before?

I hadn't played it often enough to remember it 🙂

I haven't played it enough for it to come from memory.

Jx

 

[richardr]

I hadn't played it often enough to remember it

Well, go on, test your theory. You might be in for a pleasant surprise.

 

[trimmy]

Please will you have another go at playing a simple tune from memory alone and see if it's any easier.

@Jeanette frere jacques 😉

 

[Jeanette]

@Jeanette frere jacques 😉

Not tonight, I'm tired!

Jx

 

[trimmy]

Not tonight, I'm tired!

Jx

I get that reply all the time !

 

[Alice]

I get that reply all the time !

I'm censoring myself now!

 

[trimmy]

I'm censoring myself now!

I won't be offended

 

[Tenor Viol]

Getting rid of conscious thought processes is not specific to playing by ear - it also happens if someone learns a piece by heart, and it happens for good sight readers, who can turn visual patterns of notes into finger movements without conscious thought.

Playing by ear is turning sounds into finger movements.
Playing from notes is turning pictures into finger movements.

In either case, the beginner has to use conscious thought processes and the expert doesn't have to.
And in either case, it is possible to learn a piece, so that the external stimulus is no longer required.

I agree - when I am singing or playing something I've not seen before, I'm not thinking "G crotchet, F# E quavers, D minim" I just see the pattern and sing/play it. For singing that's automatic, it's mostly automatic for cello - but that has complications such as tenor clef where I do have think what the notes are. For sax there is definitely more thinking going on a lot of the time, but less than there used to be.

 

[Alice]

I won't be offended

Well to be fair it is a bit late to be tootling Friar Jaques ..
He's having his ovaltine now.

 

[trimmy]

He's having his ovaltine now.

You remembered I'm a 'Ovaltinee' 😉

 

[Alice]

You remembered I'm a 'Ovaltinee' 😉

I didn't actually know that! Maybe I did read it and it stuck in my unconscious 😀