Playing the saxophone Learn to play by ear or by reading music

Who relies on ear playing over reading?


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I have found the advice of Hal Galper (jazz and educator extraordinaire) on learning by ear, to work for me and be very helpful. Learn to sing or hum or whistle the piece or solo with the music and keep at it until you can do it without the music. Then pick up the horn and play it.
 
Yes. It's the first few hundred play throughs that are hardest. The penny starts to drop once you get into the thousands. Nobody plays instinctively by ear. It takes years of dedicated practice and study to get the familiarity with the instrument. A lot of my solos were worked out while driving a truck.

@richardr Look up voice leading. One note per bar moving the smallest distance works, you can use it to work out a counter melody.
 
I have found the advice of Hal Galper (jazz and educator extraordinaire) on learning by ear, to work for me and be very helpful. Learn to sing or hum or whistle the piece or solo with the music and keep at it until you can do it without the music. Then pick up the horn and play it.
This works only so far for me. I can learn a simple melody this way but with more complicated ones my humming or whistling seems to slide over the awkward bits without me really learning them. The two ways to overcome this are listening to a phrase then playing what I've heard repeatedly until I get it right, then move onto the next phrase, or the lazy way out - a leadsheet.
 
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@richardr ...have you tried doing this really slowly with voice?

Also, if it's just a flourish on the phrase, then it isn't too critical to get that fancy piece note for note, it's more important to be able to restate it in your own words so to speak.

@Colin the Bear ..... You are right on the mark....as my first musical mentor would tell me and his son, my bestie, play it a hundred times you know it, a thousand times you own it.

I recommend to not just learn something til you can play it right, I beleive it best to learn it til you can't play it wrong.
 
have you tried doing this really slowly with voice?
No: this isn't what I need. Where I struggle with a complicated bit is recognising the individual notes. This requires careful listening, then I try to repeat it on my sax and, although it might take several attempts, this method had never failed me yet. My singing, humming and whistling isn't good enough for me to get the tune that way. Once I know the tune and the words, singing it helps to commit it to memory, nut getting the tune exactly right with my voice is another task. I'm not a singer.
You are right on the mark....as my first musical mentor would tell me and his son, my bestie, play it a hundred times you know it, a thousand times you own it.

I recommend to not just learn something til you can play it right, I beleive it best to learn it til you can't play it wrong.
I've played "Up a Lazy River" innumerable times and, although I'm improving, I'm not there yet. It's encouraging to know that I'm not the only one for whom learning a tune isn't done in an instant.
 
It’s a while since I posted on this thread. This is to let anyone who’s interested know how I’m getting on.

I now sit-in regularly with two local jazz bands. Everyone, the bands, the audiences and most of all I, know I’m nowhere near good enough but I’m keen to improve and trying hard so they encourage me. With one band, the Forest New Orleans Jazz Band, I simply sit in on a couple of numbers from their set list. I never know in advance what I’ll be playing and quite often it’s a tune I’ve never heard before. I listen to what’s going on and try to play something that fits.

For the other band, the Pendle Jazzmen, we agree in advance on one number that I’ll practice. Usually the result on the night is dreadful, because no matter how much effort I’ve put into learning a number, when I stand up to play I’ve forgotten it. "Up a Lazy River" was a disaster because I'd learned it in Bb, only to find that the band played it in F. One ray of hope was when I tried "St. James’ Infirmary" and used the blues scale in E (as my teacher advised) and the result wasn’t all that bad, but it seemed to come together last week when I played “Georgia On My Mind”. Not the least pleasing aspect of my effort was that, as usual, my memory failed at the beginning and for the first 8 bars of my solo I found myself going somewhere that I hadn’t intended but I followed my instinct and the result could have been worse. Then I picked up the tune and played the rest of it properly and, most importantly, in time.

Several factors contributed to this success. First of all, “Georgia On My Mind” is one of my favourites and I’ve been playing it for years, on my own without much regard to timing. I have a lead sheet which shows me the time value for each note for me to memorise. One innovation is IReel Pro, for which I bought a tablet computer from ASDA at the price of £60 plus the program which cost £10.50. “Georgia” was the first number I practised using IReel Pro for the backing track and the result was very encouraging. Finally, a bit of good luck: the regular guitar/banjo man for the Pendle Jazzmen was away on holiday and Ronnie, the banjoist from The Forest New Orleans band, stood in. Ronnie plays very loudly, so I could hear him clearly above the rest of the band and that carried me through.

This week I’m going to have a go at “Bill Bailey”, another number that I know well, but this time I don’t have the benefit of a lead sheet, so I’ve got to work out from the backing track on IReel Pro what the values of the longer notes and rests are. (Please don’t send me a lead sheet – I’ve very nearly got it and in the process I’m beginning to recognise the bar structure as I play, all necessary learning.)

I’ve known for a very long time that timing is my weakest area and I’m putting most of my effort into improving in this direction. I’m very conscious of the fact that my playing is poor in every other respect as well but I’ll be able to concentrate on other things when timing comes naturally.

One final point for @tenorviol : to my dismay I find that my reading’s improving as well.
 
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This works only so far for me. I can learn a simple melody this way but with more complicated ones my humming or whistling seems to slide over the awkward bits without me really learning them. The two ways to overcome this are listening to a phrase then playing what I've heard repeatedly until I get it right, then move onto the next phrase, or the lazy way out - a leadsheet.

I'm completely with you on that one. I'm hopeless at singing. If I can't play something by ear I can't sing it either.
 
Have another one.

Deadlink Removed

You will have to transpose these. Think of the new key then adjust your eyes to read the top of the notes.

With a space note play the line the note is touching. With a line note play the space the note is touching. Easy🙂
 
Thanks to everyone.
I'm used to having to transpose - there are many pieces that the bands with which I sit-in play in keys other than the usual one and I've been caught out twice by learning a piece in one key only to find that it's played in another. I know that to a competent jazzer this should be no problem but I'm nowhere near competent.
When I say I'm used to transposition, I don't mean that I can do it properly. The way I transpose from a lead sheet is, learn the tune in the key as it's written, then learn to play it in the required key by ear/memory.
Last night I was caught out in a different way: the band was playing "Moose March" in Ab, which is Bb on my tenor. I haven't practiced in Bb for a while and I panicked: first time round I was clueless. However, while the solos were being played I worked out the basic scale and was better the second time round. Only afterwards did I remember the Bb key signature which should have told me straightaway that Bb is all naturals except Bb and Eb. Many people think that because I'm allowed to sit in I must know what I'm doing but that ain't true!
I hope that those who know what they're doing will laugh at my efforts and also that my posts will encourage other learners to have a go. Jazz is fun!
 
It turns out that the lead sheet for Bill Bailey to which @Justin Chune kindly directed me is in G, which is the right key for my tenor as I'm assured that the band will play it in concert F (whether they do remains to be seen!). However, apart from the basic chord structure, it's nothing like the tune I've been playing. I haven't time to get the proper tune committed to memory in time for tomorrow evening. I had a lesson this afternoon and explained the problem to my teacher. Using IReelPro, he played the proper tune while I played mine and it all fitted together so tomorrow I'll play what I know and call it improvisation. I say again, jazz is fun!
Another issue that emerged at my lesson is that the guy before me, also a tenorman and, I expect, a much better player than me, is in the same position that I was just over six months ago, desperate to play along with other musicians and looking for an opportunity. I've hit lucky, being allowed weekly sit-ins with two bands and I wish I could point him in a similar direction.
 
I did "Bill Bailey" on Thursday evening. As usual my playing was rubbish but I got the timing dead right which pleased me. I fall short of competence in innumerable ways and I can't get everything right all at once. Right now, timing is my No1 priority. You may ask, how could anyone struggle with the timing of something so simple as "Bill Bailey"? The bits where I am playing come easily. What I find difficult is remembering the length of longer notes and rests. In other, having played one phrase, when do I start the next? I'm learning but it's not instant.
 

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