Playing the saxophone Learn to play by ear or by reading music

[gladsaxisme]

That's interesting. When you were trying to find the start note, did you do it by trying to blow the same pitch on your sax as the start note on the record?

Yes I don't know what else you could do but I'm obviously not very good at recognising notes by ear, my tutor Will Lenton tried to get me into it by playing notes and asking what I thought it was but I was hopeless at it.
When I was giving it a go yesterday and I thought I had cracked a bit of the first run of notes a friend that had come round thought I should be higher or at least the tune I was listening to was higher than me but I put that down to listening to a trumpet and playing a sax what do you think

 

[Taz]

Sounds like another of those strange phenomenon that happens when playing musical instruments like getting the tune under your fingers, when playing from memory you are not really thinking about what your playing and your fingers are just basically doing their own thing.
Maybe this playing by ear works in a similar way in that it becomes an automatic response rather than trying to fathom it all out.
I'm always surprised when people say they can't remember tunes to play them, they have to have the dots, when to me there is no remembering at all it just becomes automatic,
Looking more and more like its the practicing thing to get it ingrained and working automatically

I went to a jam session last night, and it's a jam session in its truest form of the word. A bunch of musicians from all ages and all genres (I was truly amazed at how many 18 to 25 year olds, where into jazz!) Anyway, I was talking to a guy who started telling me about intervals. I've heard about them, especially in this thread, but never really knew what they were. I'd previously spoken to him about my inability to remember what the notes on the were called. We were then both quite amazed at my ability to find intervals without thinking about it. (No one was more surprised than I was) I then also realised that the less I concentrate the more fluid my playing becomes! I hope someone can explain that one too me, 'cos I sure as hell don't know how it works!

Oh, and just to finish this off...

Mary had a little lamb,
She walked it near a pylon
Four million volts shot up it's ar#*
And turned its wool to nylon!

 

[richardr]

Yes I don't know what else you could do but I'm obviously not very good at recognising notes by ear, my tutor Will Lenton tried to get me into it by playing notes and asking what I thought it was but I was hopeless at it.
When I was giving it a go yesterday and I thought I had cracked a bit of the first run of notes a friend that had come round thought I should be higher or at least the tune I was listening to was higher than me but I put that down to listening to a trumpet and playing a sax what do you think

I think it would have been easier for you to find the start note if I'd posted a saxophone track. I chose Louis Armstrong's "St. James' Infirmary" despite it being a trumpet track because it ticked all the other boxes for what I wanted and I couldn't find a sax track that did. I'd have given the start note anyway but it was doubly necessary with a trumpet track.
How did Will try to teach you note recognition? Did he play a note and ask you to say what it was, C, Bb or whatever, or did he play a note and ask you to find the same one on your sax? It's really the latter that you need at present but don't be discouraged if you don't get it right at first try. I had to "hunt and peck" to find in what key Satchmo was playing.

 

[richardr]

ability to find intervals without thinking about it

I do it the same way although I'm nowhere near as good at it as Taz. I haven't needed to think about intervals so far and if I do it screws up my playing. However, on thing I'm beginning to recognise from this thread, Tenorviol's sheet music one and others on this forum is that bits of apparently useless knowledge eventually fall into place.

 

[Dibbs]

...I used to find myself getting snarled-up through "bending" notes instead of fingering for the note I wanted...

I've had that when a key sticks. My mouth, seemingly of it's own accord, tries to lip it to the right pitch before my brain realises that there's something wrong.

 

[Bernie]

I've had that when a key sticks. My mouth, seemingly of it's own accord, tries to lip it to the right pitch before my brain realises that there's something wrong.

Do you ever find you hit the wrong key, and the note doesn't sound, or sounds strangled, because your mouth is making the shape for the note you thought you were going to hit?

 

[Taz]

Do you ever find you hit the wrong key, and the note doesn't sound, or sounds strangled, because your mouth is making the shape for the note you thought you were going to hit?

This is something that I notice! A bit of a funny story although it was a humiliating disaster at the time, I had set my sax up on the stage, with Dark Side of the wall, I stroll casually onto the stage just in time for my solo. Any way this one evening the bass player had knocked my sax off its stand and it had landed on the tip of the mouthpiece ramming it a good quarter of an inch further on. As you can imagine the tuning was about a semitone sharp! I know that when I came to play my solo I fingered the correct note but nothing sounded! Then when I did start to get notes out they weren't what I was expecting at all and I died on the stage!

 

[Bernie]

A quaternary of an inch?!? That is 2.5 million years....

 

[Alice]

A quarternary of an inch?!? That is 2.5 million years....

No wonder it was a strange experience. Brilliant idea for a sci fi novel.

 

[AlanT]

Even though I can usually pick up a sheet and start playing it right off I am limited in that when you start talking about intervals or theory of any kind my brain shuts down it's all Greek to me. So even though I checked off sight-reader in the poll I guess I could also choose ear player because when I attempt to improvise I am not using theory or even being mindful of the chords I am just trying to find something on the fly that sounds like it fits.

 

[richardr]

Even though I can usually pick up a sheet and start playing it right off I am limited in that when you start talking about intervals or theory of any kind my brain shuts down it's all Greek to me. So even though I checked off sight-reader in the poll I guess I could also choose ear player because when I attempt to improvise I am not using theory or even being mindful of the chords I am just trying to find something on the fly that sounds like it fits.

Except that you're much better at it than me, I think I'm coming from the same place as you. All that theory does my head in, until another little bit of it clicks into place. I'll give you an example that happened while I was practicing this morning. For a while my teacher has been trying to get me to recognise patterns in what I play - and, up to now, he might as well have banged his head against the wall. I started my practice this morning by playing a few simple scales and arpeggios. Next thing, I set about learning "Pennies from Heaven" in concert C - I'd already learned it in Bb - by ear. As I did so I heard (and felt under my fingers) something familiar - hey, isn't that what I was doing a moment ago? So I stopped and worked out what it was - the notes for "....you'll find your fortune...." are simply the F7 arpeggio. I went on to recognise another familiar arpeggio in the same tune. So where does that snippet of knowledge take me? I'm not sure except that it's opening the door to something.

 

[AlanT]

I went on to recognize another familiar arpeggio in the same tune. So where does that snippet of knowledge take me? I'm not sure except that it's opening the door to something.

Cool man, keep on going! I remember seeing an interview with the great guitarist Steve Vai where he said when he feels he's not growing as a player he holes up somewhere and practices for hours until he get's to the next level as he calls it. As great and naturally gifted as he seems to be he said he needs to learn and practice to push his limits to get better just like anyone else. We are all at a certain level as players and there is always the next level if we seek it.

Oh, and just to finish this off...

Mary had a little lamb,
She walked it near a pylon
Four million volts shot up it's ar#*
And turned its wool to nylon!

or

Jack & Jill went up the hill
to fetch a pail of water
Forgetful Jill forgot the pill
and now they have a daughter

 

[Bernie]

We are all at a certain level as players and there is always the next level if we seek it.

An important concept in my personal crackpot musical philosophy is that, since we are always at a certain level as players, we should enjoy what we are doing now and not spend our entire musical lives feeling dissatisfied that we are not at a higher level.

When I say this I find people generally interpret it as complacency, arrogance, smugness, self-satisfaction etc, but that really isn't what I mean.

 

[Jeanette]

An important concept in my personal crackpot musical philosophy is that, since we are always at a certain level as players, we should enjoy what we are doing now and not spend our entire musical lives feeling dissatisfied that we are not at a higher level.

When I say this I find people generally interpret it as complacency, arrogance, smugness, self-satisfaction etc, but that really isn't what I mean.

It's a noble idea but I suspect if you ask even the most advanced player there will be something they are not happy about with their playing🙂

Jx

 

[richardr]

An important concept in my personal crackpot musical philosophy is that, since we are always at a certain level as players, we should enjoy what we are doing now and not spend our entire musical lives feeling dissatisfied that we are not at a higher level.

Are we "always at a certain level as players"? I think that many of us want to improve because, until we're better at it, there are things we want to do but can't. Furthermore most of us are improving towards our goals - I for one have improved significantly over the last year. Perhaps each us will one day reach his or her ceiling of ability and at that stage it may fairly be said that we're at a certain level from there on, but for the meantime, most of us want to improve and are enjoying the journey. You may describe us as "dissatisfied" but that's not quite right because it implies unhappiness. It would be better to describe us as students of saxophony.
If you're happy with your present level of playing and have no burning desire to improve (although I'd bet you are improving all the time just by keeping on playing) that's excellent. From all I can tell, you're way ahead of me and if I now become as good as you are I'll be a very happy chappy.

 

[Colin the Bear]

There's a mathematical name for progress that decreases as it nears it's destination. It can be frustrating to see progress slow after the initial leaps and bounds. All we can do is keep at it.

 

[richardr]

I'm always surprised when people say they can't remember tunes to play them, they have to have the dots, when to me there is no remembering at all it just becomes automatic,

I remember many tunes without conscious effort because I've heard them so many times, although when I start to play them I often find that I haven't remembered them half as well as I thought. At this point I resort either to YouTube or sheet music, depending on what is available (and whether I'm trying to prove one point or another tom myself).
When I set out to learn a new tune I have to make a conscious effort to commit it to memory. If it's one I've learned by ear, memorizing it is a combination of sound memory and finger memory - often I can't remember how a tune goes without a saxophone. If I've learned tune from sheet music it's often a bit more difficult because I've put so much mental effort into deciphering the dots, I really haven't heard what I've played. I wonder whether this is a clue as to why some people must have dots - perhaps they don't hear what they're playing so it doesn't get memorised, especially if what they're playing is a tuneless set of notes that's part of the score for an orchestral or big band piece?

 

[richardr]

There's a mathematical name for progress that decreases as it nears it's destination

The law of diminishing returns?

 

[AlanT]

I found that the sax is one instrument that if I take 6 months off from playing I slide a year back because it takes me another 6 months to get back to where I was..

 

[gladsaxisme]

This thread is getting better with every post