Playing the saxophone Learn to play by ear or by reading music

[Colin the Bear]

Mine at the mo

View: https://youtu.be/QALo9cu73Rk?list=PLyd-tVT68kFv57jYr52WM8BrdVr-d0wkk

 

[richardr]

As you might have guessed from my avatar this is my earwash.

Too good to use as earwash. But for listening-to I prefer this:

 

[richardr]

You may have seen Jeanette's post on the Cafe Trio thread about our session this afternoon. It was all about sight-reading, except a brief session on playing by ear at the end in which Jeanette, Chadders and even Ron had a go. (Trimmy wimped out.) Jeanette's efforts pleased me: she's struggled but it's clear that she's getting the knack.

 

[jbtsax]

Now you're talking my language. When the driving tension of the 2 2 2 3 groupings in 9/8 time give way to the relaxed minor blues swing it is like a breath of fresh mountain air.

 

[richardr]

Now you're talking my language. When the driving tension of the 2 2 2 3 groupings in 9/8 time give way to the relaxed minor blues swing it is like a breath of fresh mountain air.

I suppose I was asking for that. I don't know the technicalities, I merely enjoy listening to it - and "Take Five".
Last year a friend got his band at university to play a dub reggae version of "Take Five". They did it in 4/4 time and he told them it was his own composition called "Minus One". The rest of the band thought it was a reference to the ambient temperature and were none the wiser. But the result sounded excellent.

 

[jbtsax]

I suppose I was asking for that. I don't know the technicalities, I merely enjoy listening to it - and "Take Five".
Last year a friend got his band at university to play a dub reggae version of "Take Five". They did it in 4/4 time and he told them it was his own composition called "Minus One". The rest of the band thought it was a reference to the ambient temperature and were none the wiser. But the result sounded excellent.

Sorry. It is really not that technical at all. When you listen count 12 12 12 123 12 12 12 123 and you will see.

 

[richardr]

Sorry. It is really not that technical at all. When you listen count 12 12 12 123 12 12 12 123 and you will see.

Thanks. I was trying to figure out what you meant (while listening to BRaT) when your post appeared. Maybe I'd better try playing it - by ear. But not tonight.

 

[Tenor Viol]

You may have seen Jeanette's post on the Cafe Trio thread about our session this afternoon. It was all about sight-reading, except a brief session on playing by ear at the end in which Jeanette, Chadders and even Ron had a go. (Trimmy wimped out.) Jeanette's efforts pleased me: she's struggled but it's clear that she's getting the knack.

Technically, the session is not about sight-reading, it's about ensemble playing. It is in effect also about sight-reading for the simple reason we don't have any repertoire under our belts for it to be anything else... In 10 years' time when we have a pad of 60 pieces we can pull out and play....

 

[kevgermany]

I think sight reading is an essential part of ensemble playing. The music's much more complicated than just playing a few repetitive bars over key changes as you do with songs. Even when you know the piece you need the dots. And timing/counting are critical. If you don't have a clear rhythmic foundation like a drum or bass/cello everyone is out of time and it's a mess. And this happens even with a conductor as you can't really watch the conductor and read the notes. You tend to get time from hearing the others.

 

[Clivey]

I was listening to my usual bedtime Chopin stuff last night and it was apparant to me that it would be humanly impossible to read at the speed of some of the passages played.
Makes me wonder just how much of a " crutch " the sheets can be. I know I feel more relaxed, playing by ear just sitting on the sofa with a horn, but with more complex pieces it,s just nice to have the dots near at hand.

 

[Dibbs]

I was listening to my usual bedtime Chopin stuff last night and it was apparant to me that it would be humanly impossible to read at the speed of some of the passages played.
Makes me wonder just how much of a " crutch " the sheets can be. I know I feel more relaxed, playing by ear just sitting on the sofa with a horn, but with more complex pieces it,s just nice to have the dots near at hand.

You would be surprised what some people can sight read. My father was* a monster sight reader on piano. The only thing I ever remember him having to practice (for about 15 minutes) was the accompaniment some atonal piece that my sister was learning for grade 8 flute.

There is a story kicking around that Chopin witnessed Liszt sight reading some of his etudes and said that he wished he could play them that well. Then there's another better documented tale that he sight read Griegs sonata for violin and piano putting the violin lines in as well.

* He's still alive but suffering from macular degeneration which doesn't help the sight reading.

 

[BigMartin]

And this happens even with a conductor as you can't really watch the conductor and read the notes. You tend to get time from hearing the others.

The trick with playing under a conductor is to know what's coming a bar or two ahead, either because you know the piece well enough or you've developed your reading to the pioint where you can do that. Then you've go ttime to look up at the conductor for the crucial bits and go back to your part when the rhythm is nice and steady. Your time on the steady bits should mainly be coming from within (you need to develop an inner metronome; using an outer metronome will help a lot).

 

[Dibbs]

... you can't really watch the conductor and read the notes...

You can. Your peripheral vision is very sensitive to movement. You can clock the movements over the top of the music stand and take a quick glance up every so often.

 

[mpj.brennan]

Now you're talking my language. When the driving tension of the 2 2 2 3 groupings in 9/8 time give way to the relaxed minor blues swing it is like a breath of fresh mountain air.

Don't forget the extra tension added by the 3 3 3 groupings ( just showing I'm awake) This was the first "jazz" music I was exposed to at the age of 10. It was an eye-opener to discover that most "normal" jazz was totally different.

 

[Alice]

I suppose I was asking for that. I don't know the technicalities, I merely enjoy listening to it - and "Take Five".
Last year a friend got his band at university to play a dub reggae version of "Take Five". They did it in 4/4 time and he told them it was his own composition called "Minus One". The rest of the band thought it was a reference to the ambient temperature and were none the wiser. But the result sounded excellent.

I think I may have listened to a dub reggae version.. The whole idea of those two genres being fused made me wonder what on earth it could sound like because of the differences in rhythm (which identifies Jazz as such and reggae another.)

 

[jbtsax]

. . . . . . .you can't really watch the conductor and read the notes.

Actually you can, but it takes years of experience. The times it throws me are when you are sitting directly to the right of the conductor and the baton is moving on a horizontal plane rather than a vertical one. You can't tell where the beat is even though you are watching.

 

[richardr]

I think I may have listened to a dub reggae version.. The whole idea of those two genres being fused made me wonder what on earth it could sound like because of the differences in rhythm (which identifies Jazz as such and reggae another.)

Are reggae and jazz mutually exclusive?

 

[Jonesy]

Are reggae and jazz mutually exclusive?

I don't think so, my band does a jazzy version of "Waiting in vain" and a ska version of "I'm in the mood for love".

 

[Alice]

Are reggae and jazz mutually exclusive?

Sorry Richard, I think you misunderstood what I meant and I'm not very good at explaining it. What I was trying to say was that once you've sampled "Take Five" and re mixed it to a different rhythm like dub reggae (for example) the result is a pleasing juxtaposition.

 

[Jazzaferri]

IMO, whether one reads or not, the most important part of music is hearing the harmony, hearing the tension or release in a melodic line.

Theory, is just a way to discuss that using English. I did my jazz diploma, read fairly well, though not like a trained symphony player, being basically an R&B and bluesy sax type.

Some of the greatest improvisers do not read, many of the greatest readers cannot improvise.

The big advantage to doing dots on paper is the ability to write complex stuff that others can play. If you want to do that you have to read and write well and get the harmony. Other than that....

One of the best ways to get your ear/improv thing going is to play some changes to a backing track, record and listen to what you think worked and what you didn't. Steal. The licks that you like, and learn to piece em together in your own way.

My $0.02. Offered at a discount.