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M/Pieces - Ligs Lawton Mouthpieces: Researching the History

Jacques5646

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Rhys,
It does help ! Many thanks for the quick answer. Have you any experience comparing the M100 response to a "B" or "BB" versions fo the later "Lawton only" models ?
Sorry Rhys, I hadn't seen you had already covered my last question ! Disregard it , thanks
J
 

Jacques5646

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Sorry Rhys, I hadn't seen you had already covered my last question ! Disregard it , thanks
J
...and by the way, if you have a spare BB in your collection you'd like to get rid of, this is my mail !
mode edit: email deleted please use pc
 
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rhysonsax

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Rhys,
It does help ! Many thanks for the quick answer. Have you any experience comparing the M100 response to a "B" or "BB" versions fo the later "Lawton only" models ?

I haven't (yet) played any "Lawton only" models with the facing number on the table, but they were only made between late 1965 and 1967.

If "response" means playability and reed-friendliness, then my Lawton-Barton pieces are as good as the later Lawton pieces. I think this is down to the facing curves which I guess Geoff Lawton probably kept the same from Lawton-Barton into early Lawton and into later Lawton pieces.

Rhys
 

rhysonsax

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...and by the way, if you have a spare BB in your collection you'd like to get rid of, this is my mail !

If you're talking about baritone then I don't have a BB.

In general I find the BB models too bright, loud, edgy and inflexible for my tastes. The exception to that is the rare Lawton ICON model which I really like in BB and use on alto and tenor when I am fighting against playing with guitars and loud PAs.

Rhys
 
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Jacques5646

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Back to the BB's. I for one am rather for the brighter side of sound and I'm tempted to try a BB if I find one. Problem is this trial is in the £ 700 range.... (on your old ad, they apparently sold for £ 15.15.--... good old days). Have you a table of bari Lawton's opening ? e.g., do you know the opening of a 4* ?
Thanks in advance, cheers
J
 

rhysonsax

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Hi @Jacques5646

Here is an extract from an old Lawton advertising leaflet showing the baritone mouthpiece specs.

1585136432575.png



So a 4star baritone has a tip opening of 0.090 inches which is about 2.29mm.

I find that mouthpieces with a high baffle, such as the Lawton BB, need a larger tip opening to work well to create enough space between the reed and the baffle. I wouldn't want to play the BB in less than a 7star.

I see a 4star BB bari piece on eBay with a Buy It Now price of £700 but the seller accepts offers. Something about half that price would seem more realistic.

Rhys
 

johnw

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I have a few baritone mouthpieces and two Lawtons--one is 7*B gold platred and the other a Lawton- Barton 100M-silver plated. The chamber on the L-B is square-in terms of response it is very easy to control and has a huge thumping sound in the low register, Its actually really flexible mouthpiece with a nice sound.
 

Jacques5646

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Hi @Jacques5646

Here is an extract from an old Lawton advertising leaflet showing the baritone mouthpiece specs.

View attachment 14271


So a 4star baritone has a tip opening of 0.090 inches which is about 2.29mm.

I find that mouthpieces with a high baffle, such as the Lawton BB, need a larger tip opening to work well to create enough space between the reed and the baffle. I wouldn't want to play the BB in less than a 7star.

I see a 4star BB bari piece on eBay with a Buy It Now price of £700 but the seller accepts offers. Something about half that price would seem more realistic.

Rhys

Rhys, one more time, many thanks for these supersonic (and supereducated) answers.
I'll follow your advice and, as said, in any case a £700 trial is a bit expensive !
Hope Mr Covid doesn't bother you too much and I send you my best confined cheers.
J
 

rhysonsax

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Or could the M be a reference to the facing? Berg Larsen use SMS and M I think?

That's a good point. Lawton's marketing leaflets always included specifications that gave the facing length as well as the tip openings. And in his interview with John Robert Brown, Geoff mentioned how he had experimented with "long lays, short lays, flat lays, curved lays."

It would help me to get to the bottom of this point if I could see any of his early mouthpieces that used something other than "M" on the table.

Just for interest, here are the specs of the Lawton-Barton mouthpieces - only tenor and baritone were available.
1585467318177.png


Rhys
 

rhysonsax

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Just a thought - have you asked his son Jason?

I did speak to Jason Lawton on the phone a few years ago and he was very nice. I have a whole list of questions I'm intending to ask him once I have the current research properly structured into some webpages. The ongoing lockdown means I can crack on with that work and I'm about halfway through.

Rhys
 

rhysonsax

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I have been making a bit of progress with writing the content for my Lawton Mouthpiece History website.

As a bit of a taster here is a photograph of my collection of Lawton mouthpieces SATB from left to right and including three Lawton-Barton pieces on the far right.

Rhys Lawton Collection Apr 2020 01.JPG

Maybe I will use a shot like this on the home page of the website.

Rhys
 

jonf

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Wow. 28. I'm just a little bit speechless.

Jon
 

rhysonsax

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Wow. 28. I'm just a little bit speechless.

Jon

Well another one (an alto ebonite piece) is out on long term loan so the grand total is probably 29.

But there may be some additional ones hiding in instrument cases.

Rhys

PS The internet has a lot to answer for.
 

rhysonsax

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The Lockdown has given me a chance to crack on with building a website to record my researches about Lawton mouthpieces. Based on advice from forum members here I decided to do it myself using the New version of Google Sites. That takes a bit of learning and has some constraints and annoying features at the moment but it takes care of a lot of the mechanics going on "behind the scenes" and is supposed to make webpages that are compatible not just with PC screens but also tablets and smaller devices.

I have several things that i still need to refine or implement but today I have just published the first accessible draft of the Lawton website.

Lawton Saxophone Mouthpieces History

Please have a look and let me know on this thread any thoughts at all about how it seems, how it could be improved etc.

Rhys
 

brianr

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Rhys. What a fantastic piece of work.

The detail and depth of your research is wonderful, and shows the depth of your passion for all things “Lawton”.

This is a resource which will be hugely useful for all of us mouthpiece geeks for a long time.

Well done, and thanks
 

Fraser Jarvis

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Rhys, have you seen another one like my 10b? or have any ideas as to its age/history etc? It has an unusually short shank I’ve never seen another as short myself.
 

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rhysonsax

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Rhys, have you seen another one like my 10b? or have any ideas as to its age/history etc? It has an unusually short shank I’ve never seen another as short myself.

It does look a bit shorter than normal. Could you measure the overall length and also the shank length ? I haven't noticed any different dimensions on the outside of Lawton pieces throughout the run but maybe I should start looking into that.

It looks like the marking on the left side are in the smallest font that Geoff used originally. Can you measure how long the word "LAWTON" is ?

What is the history of this piece and where did you get it from ?

Rhys
 

nigeld

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Please have a look and let me know on this thread any thoughts at all about how it seems, how it could be improved etc.

It looks really good, but I find it a little hard to read the white text on top of the crinkly blue background.
 

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