Playing the saxophone Key transposition from Eb instrument to Bb instrument

[jazzdoh]

First and foremost I and many others are just trying to help, you are asking for help but in general you don't like the answers that you are given because you are resistant to a lot of solutions that members are trying to help you with.

To play music even for fun requires a certain amount of dedication and learning of some basic elements.

You want to be the best player that you can be, you have said that and that's to be applauded, you have said you want to play with other players, you have said that you want to be able to play by ear, all this is possible to you but you have to be at a certain level of expertise to achieve these goals, if you want to play in big band you need to be able to read dots well, playing by ear requires other knowledge, its a journey, time is not important because it doesn't matter if it takes you 10 years or 20 years to achieve your goals, but there are tried and tested formula's that work and have worked for decades.
You could follow these or not it's entirely up to you, but the only thing that members are trying to do is help.

 

[eb424]

 

[jazzdoh]

I had a teacher and thats all we did I didn't go back after a few lessons...£ 40 to learn something I could do by myself indoors didn't really seem like value for money

This teacher would have probably have been the best to have stuck with because he/she was aware of what was needed to make you a better player, plus whatever any teacher teaches you it has to be backed up by what you do at home.
My first teacher who I spent my first 10 years with taught me the classical approach, classical grades etc, I didn't want to learn classical but wanted to get into jazz but he assured me this was the best path, I am so glad I listened.

 

[thomsax]

@eb424 I think you need some kind of "saxophone personal trainer". A teaching person (don't need to be a music teacher, but it helps up) that listen to you and can set your goals. I know two person that are running music education. One have double diploma from Berklee (music teacher and (rock) musician) and the other one is a rock and blues musician and former teacher. When they get an adult "student" they use to sit down and make a plan how to get to the goal.

Many good players out there that can teach. But also lots of players that see teaching as an easy way to earn money. Most music teachers use to learn how to teach children and younger persons and they often don't have suitable methodology and didatics for adults.

 

[eb424]

First and foremost I and many others are just trying to help, you are asking for help but in general you don't like the answers that you are given because you are resistant to a lot of solutions that members are trying to help you with.

To play music even for fun requires a certain amount of dedication and learning of some basic elements.

You want to be the best player that you can be, you have said that and that's to be applauded, you have said you want to play with other players, you have said that you want to be able to play by ear, all this is possible to you but you have to be at a certain level of expertise to achieve these goals, if you want to play in big band you need to be able to read dots well, playing by ear requires other knowledge, its a journey, time is not important because it doesn't matter if it takes you 10 years or 20 years to achieve your goals, but there are tried and tested formula's that work and have worked for decades.
You could follow these or not it's entirely up to you, but the only thing that members are trying to do is help.

Hmm again think that is a little unfair..There is no resistance to any answers or solutions I am offered.. I would not be disrepectful enough to ask advice and ignore it... A waste of everyones time. . I am learning the basic elements and come here to verify what I have read or ask questions if I don't understand.. How many times I have thanked people for their support...I play as much as I can and no one can question my dedication...I would have to respectfully disagree that time is not important....I'm 55 years old time is extremely important as is having fun...if I were 12 not so much...Don't take this as resistance please its just my perspective

 

[thomsax]

View attachment 19521

That's good. Try to find a drum beat (loop) that in the same style as the Carpenters version. Maybe slower? Play the letters/words with your saxophone. A complete backing track can be too much to start with.

 

[jazzdoh]

Hmm again think that is a little unfair..IThere is no resistance to any answers or solutions I am offered..I would not be disrepectful enough to ask advice and ignore it...A waste of everyones time..I am learning the basic elements and come here to verify what I have read or ask questions if I don't understand.. How many times I have thanked people for there support...I play as much as I can and no one can question my dedication...I would have to respectfully disagree that time is not important....I'm 55 years old time is extremely important as is having fun...if I were 12 not so much...Don't take this as resistance please its just my perspective

I understand and maybe it was not the right choice of words but to play for fun still requires a certain level of expertise, to play with other musicians requires a certain level of musicianship to make it work, Eddie you choice the path and the timescale but the basics are still there to be learned which is scales, chords and reading dots rather than letters, plus all the other things so as to get you to your goals you have listed above.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Music teachers are trained in relevant pedagogic techniques to make teaching and progress as efficient as possible. You say you can learns scales at home. Well, yes you can, but how good are you at assessing tuning for example (and no, a tuning meter is not a substitute for that), or how you are attacking the notes?

'Pro' players are not necessarily good teachers: they may be able to play, doesn't mean they can teach.

No one has to take grades, but they do provide a reasonable structure for developing technique. There are various UK exam boards - ABRSM is only one.

 

[Colin the Bear]

If the same amount of time spent typing on forums was spent practicing on the saxophone...

 

[rhysonsax]

If the same amount of time spent typing on forums was spent practicing on the saxophone...

I guess that lots of us are guilty of that.

Rhys

 

[thomsax]

If the same amount of time spent typing on forums was spent practicing on the saxophone...

That's true/right.

 

[Targa]

I guess that lots of us are guilty of that.

Rhys

Click on info and members which shows a list of the most 'guilty'!

 

[eb424]

This teacher would have probably have been the best to have stuck with because he/she was aware of what was needed to make you a better player, plus whatever any teacher teaches you it has to be backed up by what you do at home.
My first teacher who I spent my first 10 years with taught me the classical approach, classical grades etc, I didn't want to learn classical but wanted to get into jazz but he assured me this was the best path, I am so glad I listened.

But @jazzdoh you say that was your first 10 years, I haven't got that long even if I had followed the traditional path I am only 5 years into playing, I don't have time to just pay to learn scales I can do that myself, now paying for knowledge on technique, syncopation and understanding rhythm is a lot more beneficial for me....

 

[eb424]

@eb424 I think you need some kind of "saxophone personal trainer". A teaching person (don't need to be a music teacher, but it helps up) that listen to you and can set your goals. I know two person that are running music education. One have double diploma from Berklee (music teacher and (rock) musician) and the other one is a rock and blues musician and former teacher. When they get an adult "student" they use to sit down and make a plan how to get to the goal.

Many good players out there that can teach. But also lots of players that see teaching as an easy way to earn money. Most music teachers use to learn how to teach children and younger persons and they often don't have suitable methodology and didatics for adults.

I couldn't agree more @thomsax...for me its not that there is any difference in learning styles or syllabus between adults and children but I have to respectfully disagree with @jazzdoh re time....In laymans terms I have to get where I am going quicker but have less time and resources to play...With respect to @Colin the Bear s comment I am only on here when I can't play 🙁...I would gladly pack up work and play sax all day everyday... a dream...trouble is resources if I can't play indoors at times five adults 2 dogs and a very small house I read theory hit a block and come on here for answers......time is not only an issue insofar as what I have left but like yesterday a 12 hour stretch at work also impacts...The pro I play with doesn't teach because he plays by ear but has a fantastic approach and would reach more wannabe musicians than anyone I know....People say that there are not enough people coming through perhaps it is not; not wanting to play the sax but the fear of the prescribed learning pathway...

 

[eb424]

That's good. Try to find a drum beat (loop) that in the same style as the Carpenters version. Maybe slower? Play the letters/words with your saxophone. A complete backing track can be too much to start with.

Hey thanks @thomsax.... I just play to the original song it doesn't matter if it has words at the mo no biggie it keeps me in time....there are lots of opportunities in the original for improv and once familiar with the song and notes through repetitious playing I can start working on filling the instrumentals in by ear...Thats the plan anyhoo....

 

[jazzdoh]

But @jazzdoh you say that was your first 10 years, I haven't got that long even if I had followed the traditional path I am only 5 years into playing, I don't have time to just pay to learn scales I can do that myself, now paying for knowledge on technique, syncopation and understanding rhythm is a lot more beneficial for me....

Yes I was with him for 10 years where I took all my grades, but I had my scales and chords nailed in 2/3 years, I started on grade 4 exam after 4 years and finished grades after 10 years and then moved to a dedicated jazz teacher then.

 

[jazzdoh]

I guess that lots of us are guilty of that.

Rhys

I certainly are guilty of that, haven't picked the horn up in 3 weeks due to illness and have a gig tomorrow.

 

[Ivan]

Click on info and members which shows a list of the most 'guilty'!

I don't exist

This is a stolen identity

 

[eb424]

I understand and maybe it was not the right choice of words but to play for fun still requires a certain level of expertise, to play with other musicians requires a certain level of musicianship to make it work, Eddie you choice the path and the timescale but the basics are still there to be learned which is scales, chords and reading dots rather than letters, plus all the other things so as to get you to your goals you have listed above.

I am in complete agreement @jazzdoh....but at least this way I can have fun playing the songs I want which would take years doing it the traditional way....i.e. reading dots...I am not so blind that I can't see the benefits of everything you said and the need to learn the basics....this will happen but to be a competent musician must take 10 years constant playing at least...i am only 5 in and that is why I have the utmost respect for the dedication of the guys and girls on this site and all the help and support that they have given a relative stubborn questioning newbie... I hope that I don't come accross as dismissive or resistant to any advice but have to have some understanding I don't know all the jargon and if someone says something I don't understand or have misconstrued I question it. I again hope that this doesn't come across as a young whipersnapper questioning experience I am just trying to get my perspective of the point across....

 

[Dr G]

Respect to you, Eddie, and compassion. I wish I could sit down with you and help you find a path to your goals.

I hear you about not wanting to pay someone to teach you scales. I also hear you saying that, after 5 years, you still cannot play the scales from memory. You also speak about not seeing the connection, and that is likely the reason that you would rather justify your perspective than listen to those who would hope to help.

Lore has it that when Sonny Rollins took it upon himself to study saxophone under a bridge, he would play only in one key at a time - for days. You, too, could do that. Learn a scale of your choice, then using your ears (not dots), play your favorite melodies in the key of the week. Write down the tunes you are playing so you remember which ones are in your head. Next week, same tunes in a different key.

I hold you in my thoughts and wish you all the best.