Is Wynton Marsalis such a divisive artist?

[BigAshW]

I agree, because I've got Miles' recordings on vinyl and nothing to play them on.

I have a £30 all in one record player that I make do with to listen to my vinyl. One day though I will treat myself to a nice system to do justice to the old masters.

 

[jbtsax]

Jazz used to be about having your own voice and playing in your own style, as well as having the competitive edge of players trying to outdo each other. These things kept it fresh and interesting. By only looking to the past, Marsalis seems to want to stifle that innovation and creativity, or at least channel it into recreating jazz's past glories and turn it from being the sound of surprise into the sound of conformity.

Someone has to keep the past alive, but not at the expense of the future. In this regard his influence is divisive and there's a danger that many great jazz artists whose work falls outside his narrow definition will be ignored and marginalised and his blinkered viewpoint is stifling the development of jazz as a living artform. Covers bands are fine for people who never got to see the originals, but don't mistake them for the real thing..

The downside of Wynton Marsalis

This sounds as if there are no other venues besides the Lincoln Center for jazz artists to perform. I didn't realize that one musician had that much power over all the others. I read the attached piece by Harvey Pekar written in 1998 nearly 20 years ago. I found it lacking in objectivity by the way he dismissed Marsalis' winning a Pulitzer Prize and 2 grammys, one in classical and one in jazz in 1984. One critic with an axe to grind expresses the opinion of one person. There are thousands of patrons of jazz at Lincoln Center who obviously take a different view. Wynton Marsalis obviously does his "own thing" just as other more "progressive" players do their "own thing". I find it hard to understand the animosity shown by those who have a different view of jazz in their criticism of a successful artist like Wynton Marsalis.

 

[jbtsax]

There has been a lot written in this thread about Wynton Marsalis and his views. Here is a chance to hear Wynton speak for himself.

Music; What Jazz Is - and Isn't

 

[altissimo]

This sounds as if there are no other venues besides the Lincoln Center for jazz artists to perform. I didn't realize that one musician had that much power over all the others. I read the attached piece by Harvey Pekar written in 1998 nearly 20 years ago. I found it lacking in objectivity by the way he dismissed Marsalis' winning a Pulitzer Prize and 2 grammys, one in classical and one in jazz in 1984. One critic with an axe to grind expresses the opinion of one person. There are thousands of patrons of jazz at Lincoln Center who obviously take a different view. Wynton Marsalis obviously does his "own thing" just as other more "progressive" players do their "own thing". I find it hard to understand the animosity shown by those who have a different view of jazz in their criticism of a successful artist like Wynton Marsalis.

well, sorry I only posted the one link, I'm knackered after a hard day's labour and find it difficult to type and eat at the same time...
I think there's been a lot of criticism from Marsalis' peers - David Murray, Keith Jarrett, Bob Brookmeyer, Lester Bowie, Don Byron, even his brother Branford disagrees with some of his attitudes.. most of the criticism seems to centre around his conservative views on jazz and his lack of originality

read the book Blue: The Murder Of Jazz by Eric Niesenson for a lengthy critique of Marsalis and his neoconservative jazz...

from that link you posted -
Andre Malraux, in ''The Voices of Silence,'' observes that art itself puts the biggest challenge before an artist, not the superficial statistics of sociology: ''Artists do not stem from their childhoods, but from their conflict with the achievements of their predecessors; not from their own formless world, but from the struggle with the form which others have imposed on life.'' - so where's the conflict or struggle in Wynton's cosy worldview?
It's ironic that he lauds the music of Max Roach in that article you posted, but unlike Wynton, Max was unafraid to expand his musical horizons by recording with avant garde jazz musicians like Archie Shepp, Anthony Braxton and Cecil Taylor and playing gigs with hip hop artists like Fab Five Freddy, even suggesting a kinship between hip hop and jazz.. There was a time when jazz used to draw inspiration from the popular music of the day, but Wynton doesn't seem to want to do that.

 

[nigeld]

Some people think that proper classical music ended with Brahms. Most of us think that the genre evolved throughout the 20th century and continues to do so today. Regardless of whether one prefers Brahms to Glass, one cannot sensibly say that one wrote proper music and the other doesn't. However, one can sensibly divide up the history of classical music into periods and give approximate dates when these periods started and ended. So one might argue that the Baroque period ended round about 1750.

In my opinion it's the same with Jazz. Personally I prefer the stuff before Bebop, but it would be silly to argue that the genre ended with Parker or Miles Davis. However, I suppose one could, if one chose, define a "Classical Jazz", period, like "Baroque Music", as a period that has ended, and my impression of Marsalis' article is that this is what he has done. But it would be a mistake then to assume that this "Classical Jazz" is the only proper jazz or is inherently better than later jazz. However he didn't seem to be saying that in the article.

 

[MikeMorrell]

Wynton plays trumpet and is a bit better known than his brother Bradford who plays horn.

Both brothers are IMHO well worth seeing if you get the chance! I can't comment on whether one or the other (through their musical philosophies) help or harm jazz development.i9

I've watched a few performances and jazz masterclasses to students that Wynton has given on YouTube and I personally have no doubt that he's both a very talented musician and a gifted teacher. I also watched a YouTube video of Branford giving a 'masterclass' to a middle school band. Nothing advanced, just why he felt playing music together is important and some tips on how to do this.

Both brothers are talented musicians and are committed to musical development (for example, through their masterclasses).

Ignore the negative comments. Go see and make up your own mind.4

Mike

I'm lucky enough to have tickets to see my heroes, the jlco, play at the barbican next month. As a result the post about it keeps popping up in my facebook news feed. The comments are generally positive and excited, however there are the usual negative posts I see whenever something involving Wynton Marsalis is mentioned.

Comments seem to range from, "he's not a great jazz artist" to "he's actually harming jazz development". So I was wonderinghow this community felt about him.

Personally to my untrained ears I think the guy plays a smoking horn and all the videos and recordings I've seen and heard of his have been great. Plus his lectures always seem very well considered and thought out. Bit maybe that's just me.