Intonation Intonation poll

[mizmar]

Ackshully; it kind of confirms a suspicion I have that the interest is often in the imperfections. Vintage horns, weird mouthpieces, etc. leave spaces that can be opened up by a skilled musician to be interesting

 

[Colin the Bear]

The personality of the saxophone is a blend of the imperfect nature of the instrument and the idiosyncratic nature of the player.

It's all relative, and...btw...shouldn't you be practicing? 😉

 

[David Roach]

I would disagree with the statement "#2 sounds sharp because you heard #1 first" When Pete first posted these clips in the other thread he posted the clip that sounds sharp first then the flat clip second. When first listening to it my thought was that the first clip sounded sharp before I even heard the second clip.

Well, I agree that #2 sounds a little sharp, but then #1 sounds a little flat: but taking a break from listening and then listening to #2 first altered my perception. To quote a famous saying (can't remember from whom) "Comparisons are odious" - meaning that - in this case - each take has it's own value and integrity, and that it is the act of comparison and judgement that values or devalues one from the other.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I still invite @Pete Thomas to say what he intended to play - because even though there has been some stiff disagreement, mostly all points are absolutely valid - but mainly dependent upon context.
If the intention was to play a "scoopy", microtonal, waily bluesy note - perfectly plausible - why remark on how flat it is? It's supposed to be.

This has been the premise of my stance in all the too-ing and fro-ing (how do you spell those?), because if Pete meant it to be all bluesy he'd have definitely made it more-so.
So Pete, in view of all the slightly heated two-fingered typing that has occurred on here, please tell us as the arguments as to intention can stop, and the most likely overall explanation can be debated without trying to determine what it is that we're trying to analyse.

To be blunt:

1. It's a concert G and it's pretty flat - but we all pretty much dig it - so why the hell is that?

2. It's a bent, microtonal, bluesy, waily note that is, of course flat - so why are we debating it being flat?

 

[Pete Thomas]

say what he intended to play

I recorded this in 2010, if only my memory was that good!

because if Pete meant it to be all bluesy he'd have definitely made it more-so.

That sounds likely. If I meant a big scoopy bend then I would have done that. I just hear this as a type of slightly scoopy articulation so is only at the beginning, and that is also apparent in the pitch analysis in Logic

 

[Pete Effamy]

I recorded this in 2010, if only my memory was that good!





That sounds likely. If I meant a big scoopy bend then I would have done that. I just hear this as a type of slightly scoopy articulation so is only at the beginning, and that is also apparent in the pitch analysis in Logic


View attachment 18673

Thanks. That's exactly as I take it. @turf3 there's our definitive answer - though I'm saying now on record that your points were fully valid and could just have easily have been the intension - and could have been played very much that way.

So there we have it. Let's forget the the lip up at the start - it's a long note, with no intention to deviate in tuning, and it's rather flat. Shockingly flat if we think about what we're all aiming to achieve in such a circumstance BUT, we all seem to agree that it is far from shocking in practice, and I think most of us would go as far as to say that they wouldn't have noticed had Pete not posted this thread.

So. Why. Is the context merely that everything is well played and groovin' along and we're immersed in it?

I think that's the way I explain it..

 

[Colin the Bear]

Sometimes I wish I was taller. So much goes over my head.

 

[Neffmusic]

I don't care what the tuner says. If it doesn't sound flat, it isn't flat. That note sounds great to me.......

 

[Neffmusic]

Although, not to throw a wrench in the gears, but I wondered what my opinion would be of just the note outside of the context of the rest of the clip. Strangely enough, I like the in tune note more when just listening to the note by itself and the flat note now sounds flat to me.

Clip 1

https://bit.ly/3hZv0zx

Clip 2

https://bit.ly/3rwIju8

 

[Neffmusic]

Actually, I just listened to it again, and I'm not sure. Crap!

 

[Neffmusic]

Just ran it by my 18 year old daughter who is a pretty good singer and has a great ear. She said the flat note sounded better..........

 

[Pete Effamy]

Just ran it by my 18 year old daughter who is a pretty good singer and has a great ear. She said the flat note sounded better..........

I know, it’s nuts. The crazy thing is as I’ve said before, on first/normal listening - no problem. Flagged up - we all start theorising

 

[6441]

I know, it’s nuts.

so is five pages of this!

 

[Dr G]

Just ran it by my 18 year old daughter who is a pretty good singer and has a great ear. She said the flat note sounded better..........

Bingo - you can have both.

It really is many questions, as Pete E. described. Is it in tune? Whether in tune or not, is it pleasing to the listener? Is it what the player intended?

I am amused that Pete Thomas recorded this 10+ years ago and is seeking affirmation of a note that he doesn’t even remember playing.

P.S. Thank goodness it wasn’t sharp.