Tone or Sound Improving tone by leveraging overtone practice

[mizmar]

Why don't we have a Rocksax section here on CS?

There are no style specific sections on CS. Lots of people appreciate and enjoy it when someone starts a thread on a specific aspect - technique/style/genre/worlds
I'd also recommend following John Laughter on SOTW

 

[fabriziodalisera]

Hello, practicing overtones is essential to improve many aspects:

richness of sound
throat position, or voicing
intonation (matching note positions with overtones)
air stream speed

I consider this practice and long tones as a "laboratory of sound" and I have always approached these studies like a zen meditation.
Thanks @Guenne for adding the pdf exercise and for your considerations on overtone practicing, I totally agree with everything you wrote here.
thank you @randulo for tagging me, honestly I can't remeber in which occasion I said that, but I quickly showed some overtone practicing in this video.
I played the overtones on the low Bb and I matched with the standard fingerings.
Hope you enjoy the video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk1pZ5kksT8

 

[6441]

in which occasion I said that,

Here's one; I'm not positive this is the one, but I recall going up a D major scale and playing D2 and above without the octave key, it was just an example in the middle of some other tricks, I think.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66pOX9lJ_0

 

[Guenne]

@fabriziodalisera :


I don't have the time right now to watch the video, just noticed you hold the Tenor.
From Bari player to Bari player....
Overtones on Bari (Octave, Double Octave) are extremely difficult, aren't they?
Does that go only for my Low A Yani, or is that true also for your Low Bb Conn?

Cheer, Guenne

 

[fabriziodalisera]

Yes @Guenne ,I am mainly a baritone player as you might know.
Honestly I think that almost everything is more difficult on bari compared to tenor and alto.
I did this video with the tenor just because a lot of tenor players asked me to do that and I said "ok, why not?".
I can do the same exercise on baritone, but it it way harder, you are right.
And also the altissimo, that I use a lot on baritone is way harder than on tenor.
Not to mention fast staccato used in classical music, is suuuuper hard on baritone.
To play the overtone series you need to find the right throat voicing, if you practice your bari more often it will come.
I can't speak about low A baris, because I don't play them.
Once I tried a low A mark VI, but I tried for just 10 minutes and I did not play overtones in that occasion

 

[thomsax]

I think that if playing sax is your job or primary hobby, exploring these overtone aspects is probably a Must.
For me playing on rainy Sunday afternoons and occasional jam? Not so much...

I do it, most other players I know does it ...... . Just that I prefer other methods. Just long tones and overtones ? No, lots of other good excercises to do if you want to improve as a Rocksaxophonist.

 

[jbtsax]

A hierarchy of the importance of playing skills I use in my playing and teaching are:

• Tone quality and control
• Intonation
• Articulation and style
• Technical skill

If there is not a well developed tone to begin with most people don't want to hear you play or perform. In addition, if as an individual, we like how we sound we are going to enjoy practicing and playing more. I equate a saxophone player working on overtones to develop control of the oral cavity to improve tone quality with a brass player working on "lip slurs". It is an integral part of playing the instrument with the added bonus of laying the groundwork to someday play notes in the altissimo range.

 

[turf3]

@fabriziodalisera :


I don't have the time right now to watch the video, just noticed you hold the Tenor.
From Bari player to Bari player....
Overtones on Bari (Octave, Double Octave) are extremely difficult, aren't they?
Does that go only for my Low A Yani, or is that true also for your Low Bb Conn?

Cheer, Guenne

I find overtones and altissimo notes are easier on baritone (Conn with Meyer) than on tenor (Conn with Meyer or Link). I find alto the easiest (Conn with Meyer).

My bass (Beaugnier) is the most difficult of all, but when I tried out a Buescher bass I could play way up in the altissimo after playing it only five or ten minutes - exceptionally easy. My Buescher soprano is also very easy to play up there, though my chops aren't up to the task for more than a little time (I'm primarily a bari player).

 

[Guenne]

if you practice your bari more often it will come.

Seems so, as I find playing the stuff on Tenor is much easier.
My ranking from easiest to hardest would be Tenor-Alto-Bari-Soprano.
Also I find Altissimo on Bari very easy, except the fact I have to adapt my fingerings 🙂
For instance what would be C4 on Alto would be B3 on Bari.
The high overtones on Bari pop right out, also the octave and the fifth, but the double octave is really hard...

Just long tones and overtones ? No, lots of other good excercises to do if you want to improve as a Rocksaxophonist.

I always thought Altissimo and False Fingerings would be an important part of Rock Sax.

Cheers, Guenne

 

[6441]

As a teacher, you can easily find out what a student does when you have him play C2 and match it with octave C1 on Tenor. 95% got to G2.

I had to think about this because I don't own a tenor. What I believe, and this has nothing to do with rock sax, jazz sax or polka sax, is again, that learning control is the answer to every problem the instrument presents. That control involves everything, breathing, articulation, tonguing, and yes, oveertones. If you can reliably hit the overtone you want (in your example, C2 and then play it, not G on the low C) it indicates control. Wally says elsewhere that you need to get a good-sounding low Bb. My answer isn't, "Well, you don't really need to play a low Bb that much, so who cares?" Every teacher will tell you you want to be able to play the entire range of the instrument. That some players don't feel like doing this or that technique is perfectly fine. There are things I don't do, too, but I always expore anything to do with control and tone, again, independent of idiom. As a mentor of mine once said, "It ain't the idiom, it's the idiot."

 

[Guenne]

I had to think about this because I don't own a tenor.

It's the same on Alto.
When that happens, you apply a "filter" on the normally fingered C2, like an EQ: It's like cutting the low octave C in it.
And you are right. That has nothing to do with Rock or Jazz or Classic.

Cheers, Guenne

 

[6441]

It's the same on Alto.
When that happens, you apply a "filter" on the normally fingered C2, like an EQ: It's like cutting the low octave C in it.

That EQ analogy is brilliant, Guenne!

And you are right. That has nothing to do with Rock or Jazz or Classic.

Polka sax, polka sax!

 

[pablop]

As a musician new to sax I admire Dr Wally, and find a lot of his stuff interesting and educational.
I kinda Get his argument for practicing overtones to improve tone (well, embouchure actually) but at risk of being shot down in flames here It Ain’t For Me.
From low Bb I can get two octaves up but nothing in between, and the high Bb I do get is much less musically attractive than pressing the Bis & octave key. To me It just seems like an academic palava.
I’ll keep giving it a go as part of my practice routine and see what developed, but personally it’s way down my list of priorities of stuff I DO want to master, and there’s only so much time...

the magic of overtone practice is no academic palava, while it is not intended to be used as substitutes to the regular fingering while playing it will definitely improve your intonation, your tone and you ability to hear pitch. Not to mention the many times that players like Pharoah Sanders or Michael Brecker actually use them in their playing.

All those things you DO want to master will be closer to your reach with a good foundation on tone, intonation and the practice of overtone is the shortest way there IMHO

 

[mizmar]

it is not intended to be used as substitutes to the regular fingering

It can be useful for that. Like for runs a cross the break from or too C/B/Bb.
Also there are effects, switching between regular and overtone of the same note.