Beginner Saxes I want to buy my first saxophone. Any kind of help much appreciated

[krisograbek]

I believe this is what @JayeNM meant

 

[nigeld]

Congratulations on your first saxophone.
€240 for a tenor sax is a real bargain.

I would recommend getting it serviced as soon as possible. It is difficult to play a sax that is not in good playing order, and as a beginner you will not know what is your fault and what is the saxophones fault.

It's worth checking it for leaks - take off the neck and shine a bright torch down the barrel while closing the keys one by one, and see if you can see light peeping out.

Did a mouthpiece come with it?

 

[JayeNM]

Hello.

It's not a Jupiter, it's a knock-off, likely Chinese.....if it plays up and down, you paid maybe about what it is worth.

If it doesn't...then not.

Best of luck in you sax endeavor.

 

[krisograbek]

It's not a Jupiter, it's a knock-off, likely Chinese.....if it plays up and down, you paid maybe about what it is worth.

Man, this is really sad 🙁 How can you tell?

 

[Colin the Bear]

By googling pictures and doing a little research. We all get caught from time to time.

Just because it's not the genuine article doesn't mean it's a lemon. Some far eastern copys are quite good. However some are quite bad. It's an unknown quantity of dubious provenance.

 

[nigeld]

I wonder if this could be an early Jupiter.
The case looks like a Jupiter case.
And the seller says it is quite old, so assuming that the seller is honest, I wonder whether Chinese factories were making Jupiter copies 10 years ago?

 

[stitch]

I wonder if this could be an early Jupiter.
... I wonder whether Chinese factories were making Jupiter copies 10 years ago?

I wondered that too. I also wonder if it would have been worth copying entry level instruments; surely there's more profit in counterfeiting high end models.
I think I lean towards it being an early model, but will bow to others' experience.

 

[JayeNM]

I really don't wanna be a wet blanket.....but even the first Jupes had model designations ...the earliest ones with an S prefix...stamped on body along with the serial numbers (SAS = Alto sax, STS = Tenor sax, etc).

Water under the bridge at this point.

Get the horn looked at by a tech, get it into good playing shape, and commence your journey .

 

[DavidUK]

@krisograbek - are you able to add more photos please? (you may need to use more than one post)

The bell/body brace.
The L/H pinky table.
The clothes guard.
The bell guard.
The "Jupiter" engraving without a reflection of light.

The Jupiter engraving is odd as the "J" isn't quite right and usually the name is stamped not engraved.
But there's something "right" about it too, can't put my finger on it. I haven't seen another like it but you never know.

Correct logo, with yours under...

 

[JayeNM]

I have been doing some looking into this, it is still up in the air. One source I found intimates that model #'s on their horns started a certain year, suggesting that maybe in fact early ones were made without any model dsignation stamp (?)

@krisograbek, I found a contact person at Jupiter who deals with archival sorta questions.

I have messaged you with his contact email.

 

[krisograbek]

Hi, I owe you all some feedback. I got confirmed in the local service, that what I bought is NOT a Jupiter. What's more I need to pay another €150-180 for the service to make the instrument playable. But even if I do decide to do so, this Sax is poorly made and it won't play clearly. So I decided not to invest any more money in it.

Needless to say this whole experience brought me down and properly decreased my hype to learn 🙁 I am still hoping I can return the Sax back to the seller. We already talked and I believe he is ready to do it. I'll let you all know.

I want to thank you all once again. The help I received here has exceeded my expectations 🙂

 

[CliveMA]

Hi, I owe you all some feedback. I got confirmed in the local service, that what I bought is NOT a Jupiter. What's more I need to pay another €150-180 for the service to make the instrument playable. But even if I do decide to do so, this Sax is poorly made and it won't play clearly. So I decided not to invest any more money in it.

Needless to say this whole experience brought me down and properly decreased my hype to learn 🙁 I am still hoping I can return the Sax back to the seller. We already talked and I believe he is ready to do it. I'll let you all know.

I want to thank you all once again. The help I received here has exceeded my expectations 🙂

I'm sad to hear what's happened. Chin up. Once you get through all of this and get yourself a sax you're happy with, rest assured playing and learning a sax is so much fun!

 

[DavidUK]

If this had happenend to me in the UK and the seller didn't refund I would involve the Police as the horn has a brand name on it and if not original it's a counterfeit item, the selling of which is a criminal offence.

If the Police weren't interested a private court claim would easily succeed, again due to you thinking you were buying a Jupiter and having been duped into buying a fake. That the seller genuinely may not have realised it was a fake is no defence when selling a branded item.

However, in both cases you'd need first to obtain from Jupiter proof in writing that the horn isn't a Jupiter. Proof from your service technician or even a renowned expert is no good, it has to be the manufacturer's proof. Both the Police and Courts would need this proof to take action in your favour.

 

[JayeNM]

Hi, I owe you all some feedback. I got confirmed in the local service, that what I bought is NOT a Jupiter. What's more I need to pay another €150-180 for the service to make the instrument playable. But even if I do decide to do so, this Sax is poorly made and it won't play clearly. So I decided not to invest any more money in it.

Needless to say this whole experience brought me down and properly decreased my hype to learn 🙁 I am still hoping I can return the Sax back to the seller. We already talked and I believe he is ready to do it. I'll let you all know.

I want to thank you all once again. The help I received here has exceeded my expectations 🙂

This is really too bad...and you have investiagted approaching the seller, which is good. Explain the situation, and if they don't take the full return, as a fall-back you should ask - if they will NOT take the horn back, can they at least toss maybe €100 your way just as some sort of settlement ?

I would not get all gung-ho and become very aggressive with seller. There is a somewhat reasonable chance that they really didn't know otherwise. I would not pull the police into this now.

This is a tough situation because, unlike, say, having bought on eBay or from a shop - the seller's story (whether true or not they will stick to it and it is defensible) is that they had no knowledge of saxes, they found it, it says Jupiter, so there was no reason for them to believe it wasn't).
In US, as a last resort one could go after them with a small claims suit and they'd win...I dunno what the German legal system provides for small-euro value transactions, however.

Just as a yardstick to anyone who reads this thread in future - this is a very REAL scenario for a brand-new player who's budget is very, very limited. It is a more common occurrence than one thinks, in both aspects:

a) the horn is a knock-off
b) the horn isn't in good playing condition.

OK, Kris, see how it goes with the seller...and let us know....good luck.

 

[Zugzwang]

Very sorry to hear of your troubles, Kris. But don't give up: this is just the saxophone gods testing you, to see how much you want to play.
While you are waiting to get your money back, go and listen to many sax players - don't think because you are tall you should play tenor - tenor and alto have very different sounds, and usually people have a preference (not based on size!). Also you could check out YouTube sax teachers - again there are many, and some will be more to your taste than others.
Good luck.

 

[DavidUK]

Be aggressive if you have to. In the UK it's very clear that selling fake goods is illegal whether or not the seller knew. But of course check the law in Germany. And have Jupiter confirm first that it's definitely not genuine.

 

[JayeNM]

Be aggressive if you have to. In the UK it's very clear that selling fake goods is illegal whether or not the seller knew. But of course check the law in Germany. And have Jupiter confirm first that it's definitely not genuine.

I really don't think this path is going to get anywhere other than bad blood between everyone, though.
While, indeed, the law as written may state that it's illegal regardless of whether seller was aware, in practice I am not certain a police dept would really pursue an individual in the absence of intent.
One can pull out "I'm gonna report this to police" as leverage, if need be, but as it seems like seller was at least open to discussing the issue, I would not use that unless seller absolutely dug in his heels...my 2 cents.

Personally...if Kris cannot return it - but can get €100 or so back as a partial refund, it wouldn't be terrible to take that money, put it toward repair, and get a playing Tenor out of the whole affair after all.

It would end up being around a €300 investment in the end...and for a freshly-serviced Tenor which appears to very much be on the newish side, that's about 'money's worth' for the money invested.

If it was ever to be sold again, just get an engraver to add something to the name to make it a non-Jupiter.