How about this for Improv

[sharon]

Some of you may know of my tribulations with a tenor sax. After about a month of regular practice it now sounds like it's supposed to. Even though I feel my progress has been slower than the alto although I probably spent more time with the alto in the beginning.

Anyway - I have come to the conclusion that my left hand is just too small to go around the blasted thing. I can't press the octave key in without hitting the palm keys - this is despite many adjustments in position etc. The distance between my thumb and index finger is too short. So I thought all I need is to shorten the distance that my thumb travels to press the octave key. I have resorted to a big piece of blue tac - and amazingly it works 😱

Only trouble is of course when you push the blue tac it flattens. So today children I used a big blue bead as well (stuck into the blue tac). It looks like a circus act but does play the octave notes.

It just won't do though will it? Is there such a thing as a pad that would do the job or are some tenors fatter than others. It seem there is no end to the trouble but always there's the feeling that if I could just do it - oooh I'd play it beautifully. My husband keeps saying "send it back" but I want to give it a proper chance.

Oh and Bob - no key bending allowed for me as you know.

Waddaya think chaps.

Sharon

 

[Saxlicker]

Well done.

You can buy some rubber slip over risers at least for palm keys which is the complete opposite to what you are after by the sounds of it....but just maybe that you're in luck and there is a product out there for you already? Failing that people customise with epoxy resins if you're gonna keep it.
I saw some risers at sax.co.blah blah...maybe they can help.

P.S. Where is Bob? :erm:

 

[Linky Lee]

I know he hasn't been around recently...

... Practice and you will learn to stretch more. It's like the bottom Bb, at first it's a stretch, then you start to think about it less and one day someone has some troubles with it and you say yeah I used to as well. Don't anymore I just kept playing and it went away.

if you can attach a rod to it that is solid but removable, that sounds like your best 'short term fix'

Griff is probably the person to suggest something. I guess you want to shift the octave key left on the body tube in effect.

What sax do you have? it may have really high palm keys compared to others, the keys are in different positions on different saxes and it can make quite a big difference to shall we say 'unacquainted' hands.

 

[Bobby G]

I've sort of been around again, but equipment malfunctions (so-called upgrades bah!) and babies in da house have kept me offline for the last couple of eeks.

I found with my Dolnet that even with bending the palm keys they still weren't quite right, so I invested in some risers and voila! Everything works fine and feels like it's in the right place.

Sharon, from what you are saying it sounds like you need a octave key riser if there is such a thing, or maybe you need to plant your thumb on the rest in a slightly different position - ideally, you shouldn't need to move your thumb too much to work the octave key, it can be done by rocking the thumb a little rather than lifting and moving it onto the octave key. Modern octave keys tend to be shaped to 'surround' a part of the thumbrest, so there should be a comfortable position somewhere. Maybe try bending the octave key out slightly

Cheers, Bob

 

[jadoube]

Modern octave keys tend to be shaped to 'surround' a part of the thumbrest, so there should be a comfortable position somewhere.

Thankfully ! In olden days they were not shaped to surround, and as a result are an absolute so and so.

Here's some (rather poor quality) pics of a 1925 alto

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/Jadoube.sax/CouesnonAltoSax

You can see the octave mechanism in the 7th pic. There's a simple rounded button directly above the thumb rest. As a result I find the only option is to position the left hand with the thumb aligned up and down the body of the sax.

This really brings the hand close in, but even so the palm keys on this sax end up too far away from my (small!) hands.

Not a realistic option for a beginner like me. (I got it as an extra sax, just for fun - otherwise it would have been a waste of money)


John

 

[Bobby G]

Hi John, I couldn't access those pictures, but my mid/late 40's Dolnet alto has something that I imagine is very similar i.e. a considerably smaller l.h. thumbrest than on my Yamaha, with a similar-sized rounded button to work the octave mech. In itself, it works easily and comfortably, but I had the same problem as you with the small hands & palm keys too far away. Some risers have sorted that problem, it's now generally comfortable, although the l.h. pinky keys and lack of interlinking between the C# and G# keys took a bit of getting used to.

I suppose it would be possible to remove the octave button and have something more 'shaped' fitted.

Cheers, Bob

 

[jadoube]

Thanks Bob, i 'think' I've fixed it but.....

 

[sharon]

All advice well taken. I know what you mean about the stretch for keys as I had it on the alto and don't get it now. But this is really more of a physical shortness thing. I can reach all the other keys and even the bottom ones with no trouble. I've tried putting my thumb on a different part which sorta works but places my fingers just off the keys at the front.

Anyhow the bead/blue tac arrangement works beautifully and it's adjusted just right. I think it will become a permanent fixture of this sax for now. I can really concentrate on the tone of the octave notes now without constantly changing the position of my hands.

Thanks for your input chaps.

Sharon

 

[Linky Lee]

I too have a 1925 saxophone and the octave key is a 'fiddle'. small thumb rest and small rounded button vertically above.

But these saxes weren't designed to be the easiest to play.
I actually don't have a problem with playing most saxes (only keilworth with the ridiculous low D pearl about a foot from where it should be. No exaggeration!).
I've got all sorts of saxophones, the Hanson with a modern Selmer style layout, the Martin with an early vintage layout and a bell key cluster at 90degrees with no articulated G# and a couple useless trill keys (Eb and G# I believe). A 1950's borgani soprano with an inline G mech, 90degree bell keys, and the smallest thumb rest and octave key you have ever seen! (If you've seen it, of course).

With all those fairly different layouts your fingers just go where they need to and adapt. I still miss the F# on the soprano every time, it's yards away and really rounded.

Said Soprano octave: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1927/79841148kd9.jpg
and the F# : http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2481/29111280zz0.jpg
The 1925 Martin : http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/935/65862124hx9.jpg
And the Yani Bari to contrast : http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7740/47842713tn4.jpg

 

[Bobby G]

What is an articulated G# key? is that where it is connected to the C# key so that playing the C# key gives the note of G#? if so, that's what my Dolnet doesn't have. You want G#, you gotta finger G#

Cheers, Bob

 

[Pete Thomas]

That's correct. You can usually have a small mod done to articulate the G#.

It's quite handy, E.G. when playing an A or E scale my finger doesn't leave the C# key at all.

(I had that done to the Borgani soprano that Linky now has).

 

[Linky Lee]

Yes, when I get the Martin sorted out (now back together and playing... just, with strange key heights and no crook cork...) I'm going to get the G# articulated.

I can use the G# fine, but it's nice to have the easy option, especially in faster passages.

It also works with low B and Bb, not just the C#.

 

[Bobby G]

Pete Thomas wrote:
That's correct. You can usually have a small mod done to articulate the G#.

It's quite handy, E.G. when playing an A or E scale my finger doesn't leave the C# key at all.

(I had that done to the Borgani soprano that Linky now has).

This exactly where I miss not having what I correctly identified as an articulated G# key, as I do tend to hover over the C# on a modern horn when I'm playing in E or A. Due to the strange shape and layout of the l.h. pinky keys on the Dolnet, I don't know how easy the mod would be, but I'd guess not impossible. The 'overlap' from the C# to work the G# would have to be offset considerably to get the right leverage on the G# key, as that key is very long, and pivots very close to the C# key.

At the moment it's not too much of a problem as I am concentrating on trying to rival Paul Desmond for slow playing.

Cheers, Bob