Hi all - Need advice on wired clip on mic (Ergonomics problem)

[toffeecoo]

Well done all, this site has gone global - fantastic job !

Anyway, to my question. Did my first blues open mic night with my sax teacher, he was great(Mark McGee). couldn't hear myself - struggled through my solo - eek!. We were both using a vocal mic on a stand at its lowest height setting. Even on tip toes I was at least eight inches from the mic(Mark is 6' so he had no problem) I'm 5'7".
Really want to do it again as there are a few more blues nights around Glasgow, but assuming the the mike stand is a standard one, I can forsee myself having problems at other open nights. So to my question(eventually!). Have any of you good folks any info on wired clip on mic's.
Have read words like Dynamic, Cardioid, Hyper-Cardioid, Condenser, XLR etc, it's all getting a bit confusing.
Any help gratefully appreciated

 

[Pete Thomas]

AMT Roam seesm to be widely acclaimed - but I think above your budget.

I don't like clip on mics for saxophone, my solution would be to get a boom satnd so you can have the mic in the right place.

 

[Linky Lee]

Yeah, it sounds as if you were using a 'straight stand' these are mainly for vocalists. At an open mic night they really should have a boom stand as guitarists cannot get close enough and many instruentalists like yourself included.


Enjoy the blowing!

 

[chrisshaw]

Snap! I did an open mic about 3 years ago and I had to blow like hell, because there weren't enough mics!
There are pros and cons of using booms and radios:

Using a dynamic mic on a boom, those who have experienced studio work and tight gigs will tell you about the chips to the lacquer around the bell, from hitting the mic, but you can back away and move forward. (for key finding)

I also did a guest appearance for a rock and roll band. The 9 wind player all had clip-ons, which was great for the soundcheck. Until they had a solo, which were unheard and it was a nightmare for the techy. Who had to boost 9 inputs at for random 4, 8, 16 bar solos. But as soon as amps come out, damn it you need a mic.

If I play solo / duet etc, I use a pencil condenser (if needed), in some bands a boom and dynamic mic SM57 and in rock, I use a radio clip on for stage freedom.

There are some budget set ups available at www.dawkes.co.uk or get them to send you a catalogue. I personally import from Germany with www.thomann.de

 

[lee_]

I play in a large band with everybody miked up. I use one of
these. It has held up so far through two years of fairly hard use. It has a volume control, which is a must, IMO. You need to sound check with it, though, as the pre-amp has a lot of umph and could surprise your soundman.

I have seen these trade on E-bay for as little as $80 (US).

 

[Jules]

Bear in mind that once you've got a mike clipped on you're at full volume all the time- you can't back off the mike to check tuning, test a riff etc. Clip ons are great but you've got to be 100% on the button.

 

[lee_]

My mic's little amp box has a big volume knob on it. I usually clip the amp box to my music stand so it's right in front of me. We set it up at sound check and I put a piece of tape on it so I can't turn it up any louder than the sound check.

But I can still turn it down and/or off.

 

[griff136]

[No message]

 

[Bobby G]

How effective is any close micing, or clip on? Do you get a balanced or accurate sound from a microphone right at the bell? I'd have thought a certain amount of the sax sound comes out of the open tone holes as well as the bell itself.

It's usually ok at jazz or lower-volume gigs, where you can often be heard if you step up near to the mic, with your sax bell somewhere around 9-12 inches from the mic; this should be enough, with adjustments for dynamics, to boost your sound over the band, and add a little definition. Usually the sound volume is low enough, and the speaker placement is such that you don't need a sound-tech, you can more or less do it yourself by how near you place yourself to the mic.

The problem is different for higher volume playing like rock or funk - whether you are close-mic'ed with a 57 on a boom-stand, or using a clip on etc, the sound via the mic is what the audience will hear. If it's right that some of the sound is lost via the open tone-holes, can a sound-tech reproduce the actual sound of your horn? If not, is it likely to be less defined, harsher, or emphasise certain frequencies etc? If you know, for the sake of argument, your horn sounds more woolly when mic'ed up in this kind of situation, do you compensate by using a more cutting or edgy mpc, or adjusting your embouchure, or rely on a combination of your usual set-up, the sound-tech's ability, and what you are hearing through the foldback system if you have that luxury?

I'm asking all these questions because, never having heard a recording of myself playing at a rock/funk gig, I don't really know what I sound like out-front - it used to be easy playing guitar or bass, you jump off stage and play a bit on the floor as part of your soundcheck, but horns and singers are a bit limited in that respect, being tied to a mic.


Cheers, Bob

 

[lee_]

Bob, I've only seen em miked at the bell. (Clarinets are a different animal. You do have to move the mic up the body to get a decent recorded sound).

You could pretty easily rig up a 3 or 4 mic rig for your sax, if you wanted, sort of like the way they do a drum kit. But I think you would be quickly accused of grandstanding. Or worse. In the clubs where I play, you'd probably be laughed right off the stage. The soundman would also slap some kind of injunction on you charging unsafe working conditions or something.

I would venture that 99.99 percent of the recorded sax sounds you hear every day are captured by a single mic at the bell.

Personally, I prefer a good mic on a stand because you can nuance the devil out of it with subtle movements. The downside is you have to stand relative still the whole time. Also there is the aforementioned and inevitable laquer damage.

 

[Bobby G]

Mic placement for recording is another beast altogether, and maybe the subject of a separate thread, but I would think there is a distance from the bell to the mic, as you'd stand back a bit, so at least lacquer damage wouldn't be an issue.

Cheers, Bob

 

[chrisshaw]

The usual comensation for tone is ajustment on the mixing desk. 😛

Harmonic loss due to a dynamic mic or mini XLR sound capture at the bell, isn't an issue in a live rock or funk situation. It sounds great anyay!

 

[Saxlicker]

Toffecoo

I haven't read the whole thread so I hope I'm not behind.
SD Systems have a range. http://www.sdsystems.com/

I'll vouch for the LCM89

 

[toffeecoo]

Thank you all for your help and advice(most illuminating).

There seem to be pro's and cons for both mic & stand and for clip on. Will use mic and stand when suitable and available, but I'm sure there will be occasions when the clip on will be easier or more appripriate to use. To that end I will be getting the AKG 419L mic and the b29L power pack. It is within my price range, has built in volume control and can be used with a pa or desk which doesn't have phantom power. Hopefully will be able to use 'proper' mics, but I'm sure it will come in handy as a back up or for those 'tricky'
situations.

Again, thanks for all of your responses.

David

 

[saxteacher_com]

I first used a Beyer-Dynamic clip on mic. Cheap and very robust. All I would say about clip ons is that you tend to get the heavy clanking sounds of the keywork coming through and you'll need to turn down the bass levels of the sax at the mixer desk.

http://www.beyerdynamic.co.uk/datasheets/opus62.pdf

Then (thanks to a National Lottery grant!) I moved up to an SD Systems satellite mic, LCM 89T made in Amsterdam.
http://www.sdsystems.com/89/89.htm
Boy what a difference that made. It picks up so much more of the sax. And there is no clanking due to the 3 rubber mounts on the mic. It is expensive. You'll never buy a better mic. (Then again, I never did!!)

I do not use the pre-amp phantom pack. I rewired the lead to use a BNC fitting which I then connect into an Audio-Technica radio transmitter & receiver.
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/product_images/538ceaeac577ac41/index.html

Total freedom on stage. And the signal will travel through 3 walls of a house and still work!

The radio mic has a set frequency. You get a choice of 5. You have to be careful of the venue where you play, in case the MC uses a radio mic on the same frequency as you. Disaster!

Also the government is looking at changing/selling off airwave frequencies soon and that = more hassle for us all.