Playing the saxophone Help please!

[reedcusa]

So I got my first opportunity to play with a band. They're a Rolling Stones cover band. They know I haven't played anywhere but at home but are willing to work with me. I also told him I've only played with sheet music to backing tracks so doesn't have to worry about going off improvising. (jokingly) He told me he would send me the list of songs and the notes and this is an example of what I got.

"Miss You" Rolling Stones
Am – Dm / Chorus: F – E – D (2x), then E

That's it.. Here is a video of them playing the song with there old saxophonist. I don't see him playing much of chords; more a lot of E-F#-B-A-F#-E-F# (for alto) and a solo. (I'll be playing alto)
So my question. Does what he sent me correspond to anything the saxophonist did? I have the video for this song but that's it. I'm going to have to come up with something from what he gives me
for all the others. I know he's a guitarist and I'm thinking he really doesn't know what the sax guy was doing and I've gotten in over my head.
Any insight and/or suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnSCPgZfCxk

 

[progger]

If you're not accustomed to playing by ear and by feel, this is going to be an eye-opening experience. If it's a low-stakes environment, it could be a great learning experience, and give you some great ideas for things to work toward!

American-rooted music (blues, jazz, rock, funk, soul, etc, etc) is ultimately an aural tradition, and the only way to learn how to play it is to learn from recordings. Playing by ear and learning on your own from recordings is a crucial part of the process and baked into the history of this music, there's simply no way around it. So this might be your chance to jump into that world! Best of luck. 🙂

 

[skeller047]

So that’s just the same riff the guitars are playing. Which is good.

Having played a fair number of Stones hits in my day (I’m only slightly younger than Mick…), I’ll just say this. Pentatonics are your friend. When someone tells you Am, you should immediately think A minor pentatonic. That’s what those notes are from. (Or maybe Dm pentatonic, which has most of the same notes…)

Get used to thinking in concert key - F# minor on alto (the notes you gave, and the riff, is F# minor on alto) is A minor on guitar. Do not expect guitarists to talk to you in your key, you will have to know the transposition for your instrument.

I want to echo what @progger said. You have to learn this stuff by heart and by ear. Which means keep playing with the videos and records until you get it. Learn how the songs go, learn the riffs, learn the (mostly pentatonic) scales for your solos. It will be a mind expanding experience. For me, cutting my teeth playing Stones and James Brown and Marvin Gaye hits took a lot of work - but it was enthralling!

 

[thomsax]

"The old saxophonist" (a CS member and good player) is doing some improvising as well. Maybe he can help you? You're in New England. My friend use to play with James Montergomery Band and they play(ed) "Miss You". He helped me with some ideas with the solo.

I learned the riff by ear and to play the riff along with the guitar player. Sometimes we were two or three hornplayers. It's easy to learn on your own but to play along with harmonica, trumpet, bari ... it should be tight.

I hate "euro-disco", so I'm not much of a help.

Play the A minor scale over the recording: A, B, C, D, E, F and G
Play the A minor pentatonic scale over the recording: A, C, D, E, G
.........

I try differnt scales when I learn a song. I maybe want to borrow tones from the other scales when improvise.

Stones recording was with harmonica and a shorter sax solo.

 

[Pete Thomas]

One thing is to be good at either transposing or thinking of your saxophone notes immediately in concert pitch because nobody at rehearsals is going to transpose to alto for you.

 

[reedcusa]

If you're not accustomed to playing by ear and by feel, this is going to be an eye-opening experience. If it's a low-stakes environment, it could be a great learning experience, and give you some great ideas for things to work toward!

American-rooted music (blues, jazz, rock, funk, soul, etc, etc) is ultimately an aural tradition, and the only way to learn how to play it is to learn from recordings. Playing by ear and learning on your own from recordings is a crucial part of the process and baked into the history of this music, there's simply no way around it. So this might be your chance to jump into that world! Best of luck. 🙂

Thanks! I have learned from recordings in the past but it went straight to sheet music and skipped the feel. I never realized it's needed in so many genre's. Thought it was only used in jazz. I've been getting pretty bored with little improvement for awhile now (other than timing) so I'm going to give it a shot.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Man! Saxophone is everywhere. Especially baritone.

 

[progger]

Thanks! I have learned from recordings in the past but it went straight to sheet music and skipped the feel. I never realized it's needed in so many genre's. Thought it was only used in jazz. I've been getting pretty bored with little improvement for awhile now (other than timing) so I'm going to give it a shot.

I'll preface this by saying that learning music in the old-school European conservatory sense is a good and useful thing – learning to read the notes on the page, learning the terms of the theory, elements of melody/harmony/rhythm/meter/form. All that, good stuff, good to know.

...But you could, theoretically, skip it if what you're planning to do is play rock, funk, soul, jazz, etc, as long as you developed the hell out of your ears and learned a stack of great records aurally. I always recommend learning both sides of it, but if it were a theoretically choice between one or the other, it isn't close. Learning from records is essential and crucial to everything we think of as "modern" music in the American tradition, from jazz onward.

Besides, playing along with records is fun. I owe my entire career to the fact that I was lucky to realize how much I enjoyed doing it relatively early on. It's the best practice you can possibly do short of snapping your fingers and materializing a great band in your living room, which I haven't figured out how to do yet.

 

[JayeNM]

You have the answers to your questions from others.
When given the chord progression, transpose to Eb and keep your noodling within the progression.

This genre doesn't require rippin' improv solos, just maybe some melodic phrases and noodling.

It is a good choice for a tune to get your toes wet with playing with real hoooman beings.

(The bass player, sadly, is LAZY a.f. 😳....the song is MADE BY THE BASSLINE...octave line descending then ascending, almost disco-esque....and he completely phones it in).

Just as an aside.....

 

[MikeMorrell]

Ha, finally a thread that I can weigh into from personal experience! 😉

My 'Blues/Rock/Pop' band play 'covers' of some numbers by singers/bands such as Tina Turner, ColdPlay, Amy Winehouse. Prince, etc. Not with the aim of 'perfectly replicating' the original recording( or any 'live recording) but with the aim of playing our own versions with our 'versions'. With our own band line-up (2 female vocalists, keyboard player, drummer, bass player, 2 guitarists and a trumpet + sax player (me))

But for any song, we always aim to play 'recognisable' (often 'iconic'') riffs in various vocals/instruments. So that our audiences immediately recognize the song and can sing along to it they wish.

IMHO, the original and various YouTube 'live recordings can vary enormously! Sometimes with backing singers, usually without. Very occasionally with brass/sax 'fills' and even more occasionally solos;

Miss You is essentially a 'sparse' song Vocals + rhythm section,

So IMHO I would just completely disregard the previous sax player's 'contribution' and ask the basic question to the band which is: "whether, when and how can I 'add value' to this number as sax player"? Maybe they just suggest that you play exactly same as the previous sax player Maybe they give you full freedom to 'add value' when as you it. To be further discussed with the band.

 

[thomsax]

"Cover" is a wide concept. From the original recording (the right recorded key, instrumentation, form ...) or other covers that other artists made famous. Most covers are ad lib. But there are bands who can do covers in a very good way.

 

[MikeMorrell]

Ha, finally a thread that I can weigh into from personal experience! 😉

....

@reedcusa Just a couple of more 'observations' (from my personal) experience:

1. Trying to 'add value' on sax (my previous post) is just my own personal philosophy and approach. I don't feel the need to 'play along' on every song. IlSo I'm personally selective as to when, where and how I play sax on certain songs. I'm quite happy to 'sit out' on songs on which I feel I have nothing to add as a sax player. Or just join in on the 2nd or 3rd chorus just to give it a bit more 'body'. Or - on some numbers - just play an intermediate 4 - 16 bar sax 'guest solo' just as a way of providing a 'short break with a different sound' to the audience. I'm truly incapable of playing fast or complicated solos so I usually just 'embellish' the vocal melody a bit on sax🙂
2. One thing I learned early on - which I hope will help you - was first to 'just listen' to the band, without playing anything. Noting who (if anyone) played what 'fills' at the end of vocal lines, 'punctation marks' during vocal lines and solos. And who lays down the 'chord blanket': keyboard player, rhythm guitarist? IHMO you don't add much value as a sax player if you just play similar 'fills' (or supporting notes) that a keyboard player, guitarist or vocalist is playing/singing too. Unless you (or preferably together) can work out some kind of 'harmony' in which your sax truly complements (rather than duplicates or distracts from) the fills and supporting notes that other band members play. Listen for 'gaps' or 'thin sections'. These may well be deliberate! But they also may be opportunities to 'chime in' with your sax.
   
   In short, take the time you need to listen to and 'analyze' the band's music ion order to decide (or propose when and how you play.
3. I first started playing in this band 2 years ago, I had only some experience in playing in 'Big Bands' (always with written-out sheet music). So it was (or me) a really big change to just play from vocal lines + chords (in concert C) and basically just to 'make things up' to complement any songs.
4. When I first started playing with my (established) band, I felt very inexperienced and unsure of myself. Neither the current band members nor I had any real idea how an additional 'sax player' might fit in. So I just 'experimented' for the first 3-4 weeks, continually asking other band members for their feedback on what they thought of my 'contributions' and asking them for any suggestions. I did get very positive feedback (mainly: let it really rip in the higher notes!'). And after about 4-6 weeks I finally felt that I too was an accepted 'band member' (and entitled to my 'personal opinions'). So it took a while before I felt 'fully accepted' as an equal band member.
5. A trumpet (and flugelhorn) player, with whom I've played together with in "jazz workshops' for years, joined our band about 6 months after I did. I was (and still am) delighted that we since then, Gen together form the 'horn section' of our band! Generally, we both work really together as a 'tight' Horn section. Sometimes doubling on the same notes, sometimes harmonizing and sometimes doubling/harmonizing in different octaves.
6. One difference between the trumpet (and flugelhorn) player and I is in the 'selectiveness' w.rt. what, when and how to play along to. I'm very selective (and I'm happy to sit out on songs on which I feel I have nothing to add). The trumpet (and flugelhorn) player has a very approach in terms of looking for 'opportunities' on all songs to contribute his Trumpet/Flugelhorn. He does have the significant advantage that his Flugelhorn has a soft, warm and 'rounded' tone and if he- as he does -plays quietly, It's a perfect accompaniment to many songs (depending on what he plays),
7. I'm more selective than my fellow trumpet (and flugelhorn) player because if the 'horn section' plays too often, it just makes IMHO any band/concert 'sound broadly the same'; any 'surprise/boost element' w.rt. the 'horn section can then get lost