Saxophone beginners Going to jam session tomorrow night

[JayeNM]

Hmm, how can I explain this? I feel like I know 10,000 songs but they are in my brain and I need the dots to help me remember. One note at a time. Also, you really need dots to know the starting note too. But at the jam I am going to everyone is using sheet music, so it's not a problem.

This is why I suggested that list of songs that you dissed 😉 You start with easy melodies, repetetive ones.

As you say, for meantime you don't HAVE TO memorize...but...beibg at least meciocre at it is a good idea for your player development.

But I do agree, the priority now is for you to start performing better at the jams. Stop crashing, settle down, be able to play some head melodies without being ultra stressed. Then taking a FEW choruses of a decent solo on a couple tunes...like two or three choruses, maybe two or three tunes.

Memorization doesn't come into play for those priorities.

 

[JayeNM]

If it's a tune you don't know, and they're kind enough to give you the Key, listen twice around, and you should be ready to play. If not, can you sing/dance? 😜

Mmmmm....that is FAIRLY ADVANCED, that is.

Expecting a player at a jam, unfamiliar with a tune, to just blowb a couple choruses of solo based solely on the key and having listened to the form a few times ?

I can see it for rock/pop maybe....but that is a LOT to expect of a beginning jazz jam player, IMHO.

My advice, for the current situation - you don't know the tune, and it isn't a blues or like a two or three chord modal (Impressions, Sunflower i.e.).....sit it out....

 

[JayeNM]

You played an unrequested backing accompaniment during the guitarist's solo? 😱
Sorry, that's a no-no!
As is IMHO belching before playing as on your latest Progress video

Not having a go, but one must maintain standards old chap, what what!

Yes...DON'T DO THAT AGAIN. Seriously, do not blow your sax while someone else is soloing.

That is just a Jam No-No.

 

[JSL]

Yes...DON'T DO THAT AGAIN. Seriously, do not blow your sax while someone else is soloing.

That is just a Jam No-No.

+1. I can think of maybe one small exception which likely applies more to a blues jam or possibly a blues at a jazz jam. And that would be if you know an appropriate backing horn line. "Appropriate" is the key term here, meaning either a signature backing riff specific to the tune or one that you come up with that fits well, is fairly sparse and simple, and most of all, doesn't interfere in any way with the soloist. It should contribute, not distract. And unless all that applies and it's the right kind of tune for a backing riff, and you know what you're doing, don't play at all. If in doubt, lay out.

One way to get an idea of how it's done is to listen closely to dozens of blues tune where there's a horn or horn section backing the solos. Learn and memorize some of those lines and how they 'fit'.

 

[mizmar]

Wrong thread!

 

[turf3]

+1. I can think of maybe one small exception which likely applies more to a blues jam or possibly a blues at a jazz jam. And that would be if you know an appropriate backing horn line. "Appropriate" is the key term here, meaning either a signature backing riff specific to the tune or one that you come up with that fits well, is fairly sparse and simple, and most of all, doesn't interfere in any way with the soloist. It should contribute, not distract. And unless all that applies and it's the right kind of tune for a backing riff, and you know what you're doing, don't play at all. If in doubt, lay out.

One way to get an idea of how it's done is to listen closely to dozens of blues tune where there's a horn or horn section backing the solos. Learn and memorize some of those lines and how they 'fit'.

Well, experienced players can play pads under a soloist, especially on a bridge; or certain stereotyped shout chorus patterns; but NO WAY should OP, with what he's described as his current skill level and situational awareness, try this. I often do this, but I've been playing African American improvised music since 1978 in a whole host of contexts; and still, a lot of times I'll put the horn up to my mouth and then say "nah, I can't add anything here".

 

[JSL]

Well, experienced players can play pads under a soloist, especially on a bridge; or certain stereotyped shout chorus patterns; but NO WAY should OP, with what he's described as his current skill level and situational awareness, try this. I often do this, but I've been playing African American improvised music since 1978 in a whole host of contexts; and still, a lot of times I'll put the horn up to my mouth and then say "nah, I can't add anything here".

Yeah, I agree 100%. I wasn't really offering that as advice to the OP, just making a general statement. However, I should have made that clear.

On rare occasions, I have played backing riffs with a second horn player at a jam, but that only works if one of us suggests a line and the other can pick up on it immediately and play it totally in sync. Which is why it's rare. I never attempt it unless I know for certain the other horn player can do it.

 

[jazzdoh]

In all honesty it's not a good job to play over someone's solo, leave to the rhythm section that's what they are there for, your there to play lead, how would you feel if there was a trumpet player playing over your solo.

What is it that you disagree with, you definitely need to respect other musicians otherwise you wont last long on any circuit, show some humility, you have only just started this part of your journey and already you are disrespecting other musicians by saying they were asleep etc.

 

[turf3]

As a bass player I attest to this. It isn't HARD, per se, but I do get riled a bit when someone calls a 'bass head' tune at a jam...

"Tonight, it's the WE HATE BASSISTS jam: we'll start out with So What and Red Clay, pass through Night in Tunisia, Git Hit in Your Soul, and we'll finish up with Bohemia After Dark and Tricotism. Enjoy, all you bass players!"

 

[skeller047]

"Tonight, it's the WE HATE BASSISTS jam: we'll start out with So What and Red Clay, pass through Night in Tunisia, Git Hit in Your Soul, and we'll finish up with Bohemia After Dark and Tricotism. Enjoy, all you bass players!"

Add Bolivia to that list. It gets called every once in a while at the Monday jam I go to. I love that tune, and will happily play it anytime, but it does stress the rhythm section.

 

[skeller047]

The fourth note

I thought that was the “avoid note”…

 

[turf3]

Well, I went to a local session tonight, that I'd never been to before, very friendly and welcoming, and I really SUCKED. Don't really know what was the problem, felt out of it. Cratered on two different 12 bar blues in A (F# for me) which shouldn't have been a problem.

It happens.

 

[thomsax]

Yeah, I agree 100%. I wasn't really offering that as advice to the OP, just making a general statement. However, I should have made that clear.

On rare occasions, I have played backing riffs with a second horn player at a jam, but that only works if one of us suggests a line and the other can pick up on it immediately and play it totally in sync. Which is why it's rare. I never attempt it unless I know for certain the other horn player can do it.

I learned by an older blues and Rock sax player that backing is a sign from the the other hornplayers that we liked the solo and wanted the solist to play more. Just repeating a basick lick/riff based on the chord tones. Sometimes the older player said; I take the third and you play the fifth. That's improvisng as well!?!?!

 

[SuperAction80]

Well, the problem with the "gotta play without paper" idea is that it comes from a time when guys in their 20s lived in NYC, four to an apartment, lived on peanut butter sandwiches, and did NOTHING but play music all day long; AND they had a restricted repertoire. In the golden days of jazz, say 1928-1955, you played all the tunes your set of musicians played. So in '55, it would have been all the bebop favorites - probably a hundred tunes.

Now, most of us have to work for a living. Even if it's in music, it's teaching lessons, or band directoring, or writing arrangements, or sound engineering.

And most of us don't really want to do the four guys in an apartment, nothing in the fridge but a couple beers and some ketchup, living off the kitty.

And then, there's just SO DAMN MUCH music.

For me, for example, as a saxophonist and bassist, I'm expected to be ready to go on jazz from 1917 to last week, rock and roll from Louis Jordan on, country and western from the Carter Family to Blake Shelton, bluegrass, folk, etc., etc., etc., - it's thousands and thousands of tunes.

What makes actual sense is to have a quick reference, so I can look at a lead sheet, or chord chart, or hell even just some handwritten notes like "In Eb, first chord is the 4, first note is G, rhythm changes on the bridge". The much-derided supposed phenomenon of "head in stand, not aware of anything going on around him" doesn't apply to me, or to any of the other experienced musicians I play with who look at a chart. We see how it's laid out, and once the head's played, look away and play the music; but it prevents train wrecks.

Sure, if you are going to a jam session where the model is that you get up, call two tunes, play on them, then sit down, yeah, it's not unreasonable to have them by memory. If the model is different, like almost always with me, where you don't know what the heck is going to get called next, then a reference is handy. Even then, of course, there's going to be tunes that aren't in the book - but at least you reduce the number of trainwrecks.

👆 This sums it up. The DJ ruined the musical specialist, thusly if you want to make money at this, you have to be a living iPod. Meaning you have to get a collection of charts going, and you have to play through them enough to sight read on command. Memorization is out of the question, unless you're playing with the same group multiple times per month. I have several of those gigs. I'm grateful that I do. I'm also playing in show bands that may pull out a song in a set that hasn't been played in months. The singers are the ones entertaining the audience. The rest of us just stay in our lane and make them sound good. We break away from charts when we solo. Other than that, the job is to sound as tight as possible.

Oddly, it's the playing along with the DJ gigs that require the least amount of sheet music, but the most amount of discipline. Remixed arrangements of old songs make understanding where to go tricky. You just got to keep your ears open. And modern music, well... I had a few gigs with a college jazz trumpet professor. He asked me how I was approaching these new tunes. The fact is that they're produced by people with no musical training whatsoever. You can hear it. Chords will clash against each other and there are no progressions to speak of. The "producers" create tunes like a bunch of strung together Tik Tok videos. That is to say that the "songs" are just strung together "moments". While that sounds like hell on earth, it's actually a good place to use the more colorful scales while memorizing new licks that you happen to stumble upon. Hour per hour, it also pays more than any gig out there. So...

I don't like the way the world has changed, but sometimes you just have to adapt to it. But yeah, when going back to the jazz idiom, I try to respect the purists. Meaning that I'm coming in with tunes that I practiced enough where there is absolutely no forgetting them. Why not? Someone has to keep this skillset alive. When the computers finally fail, only the jazz purists will remember how to make music. It's likely that they'll only be performing for the cockroaches in such an event, but somebody has to do it.

 

[AlonW]

After much frustration, I finally got the music printed in the right orientation. It was the "auto-rotate" setting that needed to be turned off. I can only do this on my computer, not my phone. Now I am ready with my song.

 

[JayeNM]

"Tonight, it's the WE HATE BASSISTS jam: we'll start out with So What and Red Clay, pass through Night in Tunisia, Git Hit in Your Soul, and we'll finish up with Bohemia After Dark and Tricotism. Enjoy, all you bass

Don't forget 'Povo'.....

 

[AlonW]

I just got back from the jam session. It was such an extraordinary gathering, so many different musicians sharing their light with the world, unifying together in one great ball of focus and energy that we all dipped into and shared. I was really nervous because last week my mind was not in a very balanced place and I didn't want go this time, but I think it's my duty somehow to be of part of this, a duty to myself and others too. But now at the end of it I can honestly say I had a great time. I had everything perfectly planned. I had my sheet music ready, my mouthpiece was already in place and tuned up as I was practicing earlier today and left it all together. All I had to do at the jam was put on a reed. I saved my good reed for this. While playing I was losing my place here and there on the sheet music but my mind brought me back to where I needed to be in the song and with a simple tune like Summertime I didn't end up botching it so badly. I got a bit confused about when I was soloing and when I was coming back to the head, it kind of all turned into a blur while I was doing it. But when it was over, I knew it was okay, and I was pretty happy. I can imagine it being better, trusting myself a little more to let my own voice come out during every part of the song, and crafting together a sensible performance without getting confused or lost. Basically, being more in control, more present, more prepared, however that's possible, that's what I want to see happen. This is a good time to give thanks to Cafe Saxophone for being there with me all the way during my preparation and practice for this. All of the people on this site who have contributed to the discussions have helped me. Thanks to all of you!

 

[Grumps]

I think it's great that you went out to play with people. There are so many aspects to music, and not all is collaborative. When you play with others though, it does tend to open doors that had not been there before.

 

[JayeNM]

I just got back from the jam session. It was such an extraordinary gathering, so many different musicians sharing their light with the world, unifying together in one great ball of focus and energy that we all dipped into and shared. I was really nervous because last week my mind was not in a very balanced place and I didn't want go this time, but I think it's my duty somehow to be of part of this, a duty to myself and others too. But now at the end of it I can honestly say I had a great time. I had everything perfectly planned. I had my sheet music ready, my mouthpiece was already in place and tuned up as I was practicing earlier today and left it all together. All I had to do at the jam was put on a reed. I saved my good reed for this. While playing I was losing my place here and there on the sheet music but my mind brought me back to where I needed to be in the song and with a simple tune like Summertime I didn't end up botching it so badly. I got a bit confused about when I was soloing and when I was coming back to the head, it kind of all turned into a blur while I was doing it. But when it was over, I knew it was okay, and I was pretty happy. I can imagine it being better, trusting myself a little more to let my own voice come out during every part of the song, and crafting together a sensible performance without getting confused or lost. Basically, being more in control, more present, more prepared, however that's possible, that's what I want to see happen. This is a good time to give thanks to Cafe Saxophone for being there with me all the way during my preparation and practice for this. All of the people on this site who have contributed to the discussions have helped me. Thanks to all of you!

Good report. So here is where you got your stuff together.

1) you played on a very simple jazz tune. Good call. Certain tunes like Summertime, Beautiful Love, etc...really are harmonically ROOTED in one place, so you stick to the key of the tune and the associated scale(s) and you honestly need not even worry about the chord changes, bar by bar.

Songs like that can 'turn into a blur' without trainwrecking because again, they are harmonically anchored in one place

2) your head was in the right place, you did not enter with haughtiness or expectations.

3) you did your pre-jam ceremony with music, setup, etc. to make yourself feel 'ready', no distactions or the like.

Well done.
My suggestion...repeat everything that worked this time. Basic song, basic changes, prepare your head and accessories in same way.

Just out of curiosity, how many horn players were there ?

 

[AlonW]

Good report. So here is where you got your stuff together.

1) you played on a very simple jazz tune. Good call. Certain tunes like Summertime, Beautiful Love, etc...really are harmonically ROOTED in one place, so you stick to the key of the tune and the associated scale(s) and you honestly need not even worry about the chord changes, bar by bar.

Songs like that can 'turn into a blur' without trainwrecking because again, they are harmonically anchored in one place

2) your head was in the right place, you did not enter with haughtiness or expectations.

3) you did your pre-jam ceremony with music, setup, etc. to make yourself feel 'ready', no distactions or the like.

Well done.
My suggestion...repeat everything that worked this time. Basic song, basic changes, prepare your head and accessories in same way.

Just out of curiosity, how many horn players were there ?

Too many to count