Playing the saxophone Following the Changes vs. Playing the Changes

[jbtsax]

Having always been a "follower" of the chord changes when improvising, I am now trying to move to a higher level in my jazz playing where I can hear the changes to a song in my "mind's ear" so that I can improvise without having to hear the chords played by the rhythm section. Any tips from the more accomplished improvisers would be helpful.

 

[ellinas]

I don't perform with confidence a jazz song unless i can visualize the chord changes in my head without looking a piece of paper. Almost the same goes with improvisation.

When I practice it, i build on the changes, in a slow pace, playing and experimenting simple ideas until reach to a point that I fully understand and feel the flow of the song.

Unless i really "Feel" a tune I can't improvise because I feel "chained".

I feel the same when I sight read. I'm really careful and round and sometimes boring. When I turn my head to the right and blow the memorized pattern I can hear a totally different sound.

I think I need a CPU upgrade but that's what works for me. 🙂
And I really thing this and transcribing the old fashioned way ( paper pencil eraser etc.) has done wonders to my playing. In the past with organ, and now with my new adventure, the saxophone

 

[aldevis]

Having always been a "follower" of the chord changes when improvising, I am now trying to move to a higher level in my jazz playing where I can hear the changes to a song in my "mind's ear" so that I can improvise without having to hear the chords played by the rhythm section. Any tips from the more accomplished improvisers would be helpful.

Of course using backing tracks with just bass and drums makes you more focussed on knowing where chords are.
Next step should be thinking in blocks. For example, Confirmation's bridge is a II V I in Bb followed by a II V I in Db. You don't really have to play all the changes, as long as you land (reasonably in time) on your feet on the I.

 

[aldevis]

When I practice it, i build on the changes, in a slow pace, playing and experimenting simple ideas until reach to a point that I fully understand and feel the flow of the song.

You clearly have a harmonic awareness uncommon among sax players.
Ideally to

feel the flow of the song.

Should be the ultimate goal, ignoring those letters and numbers

 

[Colin1]

...For example, Confirmation's bridge is a II V I in Bb followed by a II V I in Db...

What does this bit mean?

 

[BigMartin]

What does this bit mean?

Confirmation is the name of a song.

II V I in Bb: C min 7 - F7 - Bb ma j7
II V I in Db: Eb min 7 - Ab7 - Db maj7

If you don't know what the chord symbols (Cmin7 etc) mean there are plenty of places to look them up. ii-V -I is a very common chord sequence in jazz. If you can handle that (which I can't, yet) learning an improvising over songs becomes easier. I've found that knowing intellectually what the chords are is much easier than knowing them (so to speak) in your ear and your fingers. Been working on that for a long time and I'm still not there.

 

[Chris]

John, pick on simple tune you know very well, eg you can write the changes down for someone if they asked without the sheet. Then just play the changes with no sheet, over time you will just play with out thinking as you will just know. This is why guys like Miles loved to play tunes they had played for yrs it gave them a freedom to play without thinking. Just remember when it comes to jazz the pianist just might decide to improvise the changes using subs etc😳

 

[ellinas]

@aldevis
Maybe because I'm not primarily a sax player. I'm an organist/pianist and the keyboard helps you see the harmony. I admit sometimes I visualize the chords as piano keys and "step" on the notes that match with the embellishments i want ot use etc. For me this "visual" method helped a lot to grasp the principles of matching chord/scales, modal jazz etc.

When I was young I had classical piano education, and I've always wandered why under the greek educational system all other instruments had to mandatory reach a certain level of piano playing.

After started playing a totally different beast like the sax I fully understand why piano helps a LOT.

 

[jbtsax]

I know from personal experience that guitarists and keyboard players tend to think "harmonically" much more than players of single note instruments who tend to think more melodically (if at all) when improvising. Perhaps learning to play the changes of songs is a good way to "internalize" the harmony. I may have to get my "Jazz Voicings for the Non-Pianist" book out and have a go at "In a Sentimental Mood". Problem is that at my age "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" has a ring of truth to it. At least it takes this "old dog" a lot longer to learn new things than it used to.

 

[ellinas]

It's not a matter of age. Maybe time.
When I was at school I was playing for at least 4 hours every day.
Now I'm lucky if I find 3 or 4 hours every week .

And of course my progress in saxophone playing is a LOT slower than the piano when i was a kid.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Every one should be familiar with a keyboard. It's so obvious what the relation of notes are. I keep this one bookmarked.

VIRTUAL KEYBOARD - PIANO

 

[Morgan Fry]

Having always been a "follower" of the chord changes when improvising, I am now trying to move to a higher level in my jazz playing where I can hear the changes to a song in my "mind's ear" so that I can improvise without having to hear the chords played by the rhythm section. Any tips from the more accomplished improvisers would be helpful.

2 things:
1) Play changes on piano.
2) play over changes unaccompanied.

 

[GJ77]

I definitely think that an understanding of harmony helps...in other words, understanding the functionality in the progression (II, V, I to relative minor/tritone sub of dominant etc). That way, you know where you're going, not just where you are.