Scam/Fake? Fake Dolnet BelAir or a stencil?

[Eibert]

If it's made by Dolnet (it is) and it says Dolnet (it does), then it can't be a stencil.

After I had already paid for the sax, I noticed that the logo deviated quite a bit from the most common Dolnet logo: that is why I started to worry. Fortunately, several sax experts on this forum (and Sax on the Web) have since convinced me that it is a genuine one 🙂

Moreover, it was affordable and I have read positive reviews about this brand, so I hope that (after a service) it will be a good (very first) sax for me.

 

[thomsax]

Don't worry to much about the mouthpiece. Maybe it don't fit you? I played a Dolnet tenor for some years. Nice saxes with complete differnt "voice" compared to the american saxes I was used to play.

Here is a picture of the 1947 Dolnet Bel Air tenor I played. These versions of Bel Air is called amber dots because of the brown/reddish pearls on the Bb, B, C and Eb key guards. When I look at yours tenor and the one I owned they are alike.

 

[Eibert]

Here is a picture of the 1947 Dolnet Bel Air tenor I played. These versions of Bel Air is called amber dots because of the brown/reddish pearls on the Bb, B, C and Eb key guards. When I look at yours tenor and the one I owned they are alike.

Thanks: I think Dolnets are really beautiful saxes!

My Dolnet is on the way and will be delivered today or tomorrow, just hope it will not be too expensive to have it serviced back to a playable state (and ehhmm; I will need to learn how to play it!)

Have a nice day!

 

[PigSquealer]

I have worked on I think two Dolnets like this. Alto(s) and silver plated. I have a faint memory of it being a beefy rugged build. Zero recollection of playing it.

@Eibert your incoming sax looks like it has been well loved. A good start on your saxophone musical journey. Looking forward to your unboxing report.
😀

 

[thomsax]

The neck on the Dolnet was more straight compared to the sax I played most of the time, "The Martin Magna Tenor". In other words the Martin neck was/is longer. I tried diffent mouthpieces and I found an old metal mouthpiece (small chamber and high baffle) to be the best on the Dolnet.

 

[Eibert]

My Dolnet Bel Air has been delivered; It is really stunningly beautiful and it seems to be in a very good state 🙂
- it only has two or three very tiny bumps
- no parts seem to be missing, all parts/mechanisms move easily
- all pads are present (how can I determine if they need to be replaced; probably?)

I will ask two companies for a quote:

1) Maarten Visser, Fluitstudio De Fluitstudio | dwarsfluiten, ergonomie en aanpassingen
Maarten is a very gifted wind instrument maker and restorer - and is also a neighbor at the Amsterdam NDSM shipyard, where my studio (www.eibertdraisma.nl) is located as well.
2) Tim Brennan TIM BRENNAN Woodwind-Brass - Repair and overhaul of saxophones, clarinets and flutes.
Because of enthusiastic reviews from customers about his saxophone overhauls

I will take and post some photos in the coming days; unfortunately, I have to get to work now!

 

[JayeNM]

just get the tech assessments ....but beware.

A lotta techs see a vintage horn, they are gonna quote a high price or insist it needs a repad if not overhaul. so....

When you go in, ask how much it would be to get it into decent playshape, in other words, speaking up and down respectably, so you do not have to fight it.

If they insist on giving you a full repad price, let them, but then clearly communicate (if that repad price is high to you) your budget and whether they can get it to play decently for that.

 

[turf3]

Absolutely you should NOT go in and start talking about "overhaul" or even "repad". Ask about "playing condition service". Frankly, given the overall appearance of the horn, I predict that it may well need nothing done to it, or at most one or two pads and a minor adjustment. It has clearly been well cared for . I would expect to spend no more than $100 or so based on appearance.

The very lowest cost approach is to have an experienced saxophone player try it out, and if it plays OK, then just get started.

Do keep in mind what JAYE said; a lot of techs HATE working on anything that's not a Selmer Yamaha or copy thereof. Older unusual horns make them have to think and they hate that. So a lot of times they'll quote you the "go away!" price, or they'll tell you it's "obsolete" or "it's not worth it" or some variant of that. If you get that, go somewhere else .

 

[Tuppertn]

One thing you can try a pop test. It's a very simple test of well the pads are seating.

Just press each key with quick firm pressure. When the pad contacts the tone hole you should feel a sudden, firm (not squishy) stop and the horn will "pop" the note associated with the fingering. Like this:

View: https://youtu.be/yFFLh4Ih5Uw


If the horn pops nicely all the way down to low Bb, just start playing it and see what you can do.

 

[PigSquealer]

My Dolnet Bel Air has been delivered; It is really stunningly beautiful and it seems to be in a very good state 🙂
- it only has two or three very tiny bumps
- no parts seem to be missing, all parts/mechanisms move easily
- all pads are present (how can I determine if they need to be replaced; probably?)

That’s a very good looking horn. Why not try to play it as is ? Is there another sax player in your area ? Have them play test it.
It also wouldn’t hurt to ask the previous owner when this was last serviced and by who.

Take some pictures of the pads. The ones that are always closed fail first.

 

[thomsax]

My Dolnet Bel Air has been delivered; It is really stunningly beautiful and it seems to be in a very good state 🙂
- it only has two or three very tiny bumps
- no parts seem to be missing, all parts/mechanisms move easily
- all pads are present (how can I determine if they need to be replaced; probably?)

I will ask two companies for a quote:

1) Maarten Visser, Fluitstudio De Fluitstudio | dwarsfluiten, ergonomie en aanpassingen
Maarten is a very gifted wind instrument maker and restorer - and is also a neighbor at the Amsterdam NDSM shipyard, where my studio (www.eibertdraisma.nl) is located as well.
2) Tim Brennan TIM BRENNAN Woodwind-Brass - Repair and overhaul of saxophones, clarinets and flutes.
Because of enthusiastic reviews from customers about his saxophone overhauls

I will take and post some photos in the coming days; unfortunately, I have to get to work now!

Congratulation to your Dolnet tenor.

Before you take it to a tech try to blow/play your Dolnet with the Dolnet mouthpiece. Maybe you have to blow/play it for 7-10 days before you do any changes.

When I bought used (old) saxes I often heard the expression "workable pads". That means there are leaks but with cleaning and adjustment of the pads the sax can play ok again. I used books and magazines to find out how to clean and adjust pads.

Good luck with your Dolnet.

BTW. Your studio is an instresting "arena"!!!!

 

[Eibert]

That’s a very good looking horn. Why not try to play it as is ? Is there another sax player in your area ? Have them play test it.
It also wouldn’t hurt to ask the previous owner when this was last serviced and by who.

Take some pictures of the pads. The ones that are always closed fail first.

Japee Lhasee (Japee), a friend of mine, will probably come by to take a look at the sax next week or the week after and give it a quick test.

Additionally, several musicians suggested me to take the sax to Nico Bodewes (an Amsterdam sax restoration celebrity) Saxofoonreparateur Nico Bodewes - De Saxofoon & improvisatie school Utrecht
However, most of them warned me Nico probably won't have time available, as he is always very busy.
But I'm going to try anyway!

 

[Eibert]

One thing you can try a pop test. It's a very simple test of well the pads are seating.
If the horn pops nicely all the way down to low Bb, just start playing it and see what you can do.

I just did the pop test and, although some springs seem to need adjusting, the F-pop sounds quite nice and full.

Thanks for the link!

 

[PigSquealer]

I just did the pop test and, although some springs seem to need adjusting, the F-pop sounds quite nice and full.

Thanks for the link!

You can also do another sealing test by closing all the keys. Neck off, put your ear close to reciever. Gently pop a few different keys. You should hear resonance / echo inside the body. Leave G open and repeat the test. You should hear a big difference. If not you have some leaks.

 

[JayeNM]

Additionally, several musicians suggested me to take the sax to Nico Bodewes (an Amsterdam sax restoration celebrity) Saxofoonreparateur Nico Bodewes - De Saxofoon & improvisatie school Utrecht
However, most of them warned me Nico probably won't have time available, as he is always very busy.
But I'm going to try anyway!

Take your horn to a celebrity sax tech too busy to take a customer trying to make an appointment ?

Are the musicians who suggested this enemies of yours ?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Take your horn to a celebrity sax tech

You don’t need a celebrity sax tech, just a good one that can fix your horn if it needs fixing.

 

[PigSquealer]

Member @milandro may know of a qualified candidate in your area.

 

[milandro]

Cheers 😉 , I'll chip in. Everyone has different technicians whom they like, dislike, got to or not go to for a reason or other.

For years there have been many technicians operating in The Netherlands and now you see the scene changing, because , let's face it, they are all getting on. Recently a good friend Frits de Wit passed away for example. He was a great tech and a very good friend and he is now blowing his horn way over yonder.

So , now there are new guys (and a few girls) around , the new kinds on the block, but I am afraid I don't know may of those.

Nico Bodews is a great guy, although I can't claim to really know him very well because I saw him 3 times professionally and a number of other times I've met him in het bimhuis ( jazz concert hall) and he did a great repair (he is one of the metal masters, understanding soldering as few others) on my Super 20. He has been always very busy but he is pretty accessible.

I know Tim Brennan well and I didn't know that he was still active. I used to bring many horns to his house in Haarlem when I was buying horns to sell and needed to have a revision that wouldn't break the bank.

Maarten, was actually the first technician that I ever saw in Amsterdam, back then he had a shop in the Van Hallstraat but as far as I know (I also saw him later when he opened the atelier known as Fluitstudio, I have been there a few times in the past ) he didn't do saxophones anymore and did only flutes. Nice person to deal with.

Of course there is Matthew's where I very often visit, almost every Saturday ( I was there today) go there for a chat and a nip and there are several technicians there: David the former owner still inhabits the place and still does repairs , then there are Stuart and Cristina, although the second is more into clarinets and flutes.

Then Harry Bakker which is the name of the former owner of (long passed away) the shop is run by Robin (commercially) and Jeffrey ( tech) they also have other techs working there . It has been a while since I haven't been there but they are very nice competent people.

 

[PigSquealer]

@milandro very informative ! Thanks for sharing.

 

[thomsax]

Before we "boom" the Dolnet too much I just want to say: Dolnets are nice and good saxes. But do they need a special treatment form "saxophone tech artists"?

Two of the Dolnet Bel Air I had came from a saxplayer (danceable jazz, standards, schlagers..) who had been playing his Dolnet Bel Air tenor -47 and Dolnet Bel Air alto -52 outdoors during the 50's and early 60's. I had my "solder friend" to resolder some posts. After that I cleaned the saxes and installed (with shellac) standard pads with a small resonators and new corks/felts. Another friend, woodwind tech, helped me with the set-up/adjustments. It was a cleaning, re-padding, new corks and felt work.

I just write this because we can young beginners that reads this post. To buy a used sax and to make it playable is sometimes to much for a beginner.

The Dolnet Bel Air alto -52.