Ebay Baritones...

Jules · Feb 18, 2008

In my quest for a cheap Baritone I've spotted a fair few interesting looking ones in the devils junkyard of recent. Does anyone have any direct experience of-
(a) King Zephyr Silver Plated Baris
(b)Conn 12Ms- main issue here, how age effects build quality- are older ones better(?)
(b) The Splendidly named Silver Weldklang again...

Any thoughts on the above welcome....

thomsax · Feb 18, 2008

nachoman wrote:
In my quest for a cheap Baritone I've spotted a fair few interesting looking ones in the devils junkyard of recent. Does anyone have any direct experience of-
(a) King Zephyr Silver Plated Baris
(b)Conn 12Ms- main issue here, how age effects build quality- are older ones better(?)
(b) The Splendidly named Silver Weldklang again...

Any thoughts on the above welcome....

I will give you my thoughts. I have played and owned a Conn 12M and a Weltklang low A. Nota bene; I'm no expert, just a Rocksax amatuer that like saxes! I guess you are going out gigging (Rock, R&B...) with the bari.

King Zephyr: A construction from the 20's! Split bell keys. Can be difficult to get a modern (standard from the shell) mpc to work together with this sax (my opinion). Looks like my fathers old Selmer Pennsylvania (Kohlert stencil). Otherwise it seems to be a nice sax. But there is no pic from the upper part of the horn. No Rocker!! King didn't get their good reputation from their baris!!!

Conn 12M. A good 12M is one of the best baris ever made. Flexible horns. Works often with modern setups. The pre-war 12Ms are better than Conns made after wwII. The quality is overall better. Many Conns has been on the road and can be very beaten up. To get a bari in good playing condition can cost a lot of money.

Weltklang: Nice horns. In Sweden many concert bands, marching bands ... have Weltklangs. They were bargains in the 70's. Low price, you could get a new bari to low A for less money compared to a King or Conn studentbari. Good players but the keys can be noisy. Replace the cork and felt. The cork are often compressed. My horn were often at the tech for setting the keyhights. Most of the "silver" Weltklangs are nickelplated horns. Easy to get a mpc and it's a low A horn. But on the other side it's heavy. Built like a tank! You have to plan your barwalks carefully... . The Swedish musician Bebe Risenfors (Elvis Costello, Tom Waitts) bought a Weltklang low A last year.

Thomas

Jules · Feb 19, 2008

Thanks for that. You're a star, some really useful information here! You're doing a pretty good sales pitch on a Weldklang!

jools · Feb 19, 2008

Oooh Ebay, dontcha just love it. Not sure I'd buy something as big and expensive as a 'used' bari there anymore. Bought too many "ornamental' instruments in my time. Saying that, I once got a very sweet Martin alto for just ?45. (I'm sure that's another thread somewhere)

Having owned a 1930's bari for some time I think my reaction is that, because of the huge (and vulnerable) keywork they do seem more prone to damage and wear. That and the older style (read: harder to play) key layouts... I think given the choice (and the budget) I'd go for a modern horn. Mine takes a lot of grappling with to drive it properly. Luckily, there doesn't seem to be as much 'vintage' snobbery attached to baris. Again, the usual reaction I'd have is that I'd want to try before I buy.

thomsax · Feb 19, 2008

nachoman wrote:
Thanks for that. You're a star, some really useful information here! You're doing a pretty good sales pitch on a Weldklang!

The King: To old. Nothing for a Rocker!!
Conn 12 M: The 12 M on Ebay UK (Brighton)? Some solderings on the tube/post that aren't so pretty.!! Corrosions on some toneholes. To get a horn like that in good playing condition costs a lot.
Weltklang: The best bari of these three.

If you are looking for a Conn 12M get a prewar horn and buy a good one that it's complete overhauled. Bob Ackerman, Saxgourmet, USA horn .... have nice saxes.

B & S (DDR), Keilwerth stencils, Corton De Luxe (Yanigisawa) ... are also good alternative. There is a B & S on Ebay.de that looks fine. I know a guy who recently bought a Keilwerth stencil, Cleveland, to low A with rolled toneholes for about c ? 550.00. I very nice horn. You can also hear with the guys in Fishbone if they have a bari for sale. They use to through a black Jupiter between each other on the stage ..... . :w00t:

Thomas

Jules · Feb 27, 2008

Anyone got any experience of Keilwerth "Specials" ? - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230227052240&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
On the face of it this one looks like a beauty, but i'd be really interested if anyone's got any direct experience on 'em.....

Saxlicker · Feb 27, 2008

Not precisely direct!
But I did once own a JK 'new king' baritone to low A.
That was very nice, underestimated or by enlarge unheard of.
I would be happy to buy any JK bari (price fitting) on the strength of owning that one.

philthd · Feb 28, 2008

nachoman wrote:
Anyone got any experience of Keilwerth "Specials" ? - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230227052240&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
On the face of it this one looks like a beauty, but i'd be really interested if anyone's got any direct experience on 'em.....

ive had my eye on this each of the many times its been up
its hard finding out about the eastern bloc days of keilwerth and this dates from a very transitional period but i would love to have a play and find out what its like

conn 12ms - quality generally decreases year on year of manufacure with significant steps down post war, post 1950, post 1955, post 1960 (i wouldnt touch much after this) though obviously with exception - the one i owned briefly (from 55) was lovely but destroyed by a postman. they all seem to have a lot of wear when they turn up on the devils junkyard though

far from an expert opinion - just well read, some playing and a similar desperate longing

thomsax · Feb 28, 2008

I have no expirence from Keilwerth Specials bari but I have seen and tried altos and tenors. I think Keilwerth built saxes are very good. Praiseworthy saxes.

greg_strange · Feb 28, 2008

I don't know what the currency exchange rate between the US dollars and the UK pound is like, but the Phil Barone baritone saxes appear to be a good buy on a post that Phil posted on "Sax On The Web" approx. USD2,200.00 for a gold lacquered horn, and approx. USD2,800.00 for a gold-plated horn.
Apparently these horns are made in the same factory where the P. Mauriet horns are manufactured.

Regards,
Greg Strange.