Saxophones Do you know if it exist one Curved Soprano Holton with extra keys ??

[jcn664]

Hello, i know that Holton was american manufactor or seller during begin 20's century,

and i know Holton are very special ergonomics in generally, because it has extra keys. I see this extra keys on straight soprano, alto, c melody, tenor, but not on curved soprano, and my asking, does it exist ???

 

[PigSquealer]

Best I know. Holton never made a curved SOP.

 

[turf3]

I would expect any Holton-branded curved to be a stencil made by someone else.

 

[jcn664]

Best I know. Holton never made a curved SOP.

ok it's for that they're nether extra keys,

holton built sopranino or c melody with this extra keys

 

[JayeNM]

i agree, am a Holton fan, cannot recall ever seeing a curvy.

Love their straights, tho

 

[PigSquealer]

ok it's for that they're nether extra keys,

holton built sopranino or c melody with this extra keys

Straight SOP in C & Bb with extra keys, yes. The extra keys ended when the Collegiate model came out around 1928-30.
Holton didn’t make a curvy or sopranino.

 

[turf3]

Straight SOP in C & Bb with extra keys, yes. The extra keys ended when the Collegiate model came out around 1928-30.
Holton didn’t make a curvy or sopranino.

Are you sure that the C soprano was offered with the extra keys? If so, it would certainly be the only one with front high F. (By "extra keys" I don't mean the keywork to standard palm key high F, but rather the extra alternate D, G# trill (I think), front high F, and it somehow seems that there may have been another one. (I owned a Bb Holton with the extra keys.) The "extra keys" I think came with the Rudy Wiedoeft models and hung on afterward, but don't quote me on the details of their introduction.

The Collegiate was made by Couturier. I have one. Definitely a different horn than the true Holton.

 

[PigSquealer]

Are you sure that the C soprano was offered with the extra keys? If so, it would certainly be the only one with front high F. (By "extra keys" I don't mean the keywork to standard palm key high F, but rather the extra alternate D, G# trill (I think), front high F, and it somehow seems that there may have been another one. (I owned a Bb Holton with the extra keys.) The "extra keys" I think came with the Rudy Wiedoeft models and hung on afterward, but don't quote me on the details of their introduction.

The Collegiate was made by Couturier. I have one. Definitely a different horn than the true Holton.

I think you’re correct on this. The Revelation model soprano in C did not have the keys. I’m unsure if a Rudy model in C was made.
Correct on the Collegiate but technically a Lyon & Healy of Couturier design. Made in the Laporta plant….that E.A. Couturier started. Went BK and L & H bought. Then sold to Holton in March of 1928. The origin of the first Collegiate line. The Laporta plant also made the Beaufort stencil. No curves.

 

[jcn664]

what is th function of this extra keys, and why it made this ? Do you know the reason,

 

[PigSquealer]

what is th function of this extra keys, and why it made this ? Do you know the reason,

 

[JayeNM]

I think you’re correct on this. The Revelation model soprano in C did not have the keys. I’m unsure if a Rudy model in C was made.
Correct on the Collegiate but technically a Lyon & Healy of Couturier design. Made in the Laporta plant….that E.A. Couturier started. Went BK and L & H bought. Then sold to Holton in March of 1928. The origin of the first Collegiate line. The Laporta plant also made the Beaufort stencil. No curves.

Yup, 'Collegiate' gets murky sometimes because the name was both used for Holton's second shelf but also appears before the Holton acquisition. I have gotten into debates with some folks accusing me of selling a pre- Holton as a Holton Collegiate, their argument based solely on engraving.

For me, if it complies with the Holton serial sequence as far as age/era, and its details appear Holtonesque, , it's a Holton...

 

[turf3]

Yup, 'Collegiate' gets murky sometimes because the name was both used for Holton's second shelf but also appears before the Holton acquisition. I have gotten into debates with some folks accusing me of selling a pre- Holton as a Holton Collegiate, their argument based solely on engraving.

For me, if it complies with the Holton serial sequence as far as age/era, and its details appear Holtonesque, , it's a Holton...

OK, but my Holton Collegiate soprano is identical to Couturier and Lyon and Healy sopranos; and it has zero common features with Holton-mahde Holton branded sopranos of the same general age. As far as I'm concerned it's a Couturier, even if the factory had been sold 6 months earlier to L&H or Holton.

Far more interesting is the advert up above which seems to say that the Rudy Holtons had the linked G# key. Does anyone know if this is accurate? I know my Holton branded Holton made non-Rudy soprano, which had the extra keys, did NOT have the G# link.

 

[JayeNM]

OK, but my Holton Collegiate soprano is identical to Couturier and Lyon and Healy sopranos; and it has zero common features with Holton-mahde Holton branded sopranos of the same general age. As far as I'm concerned it's a Couturier, even if the factory had been sold 6 months earlier to L&H or Holton.

Far more interesting is the advert up above which seems to say that the Rudy Holtons had the linked G# key. Does anyone know if this is accurate? I know my Holton branded Holton made non-Rudy soprano, which had the extra keys, did NOT have the G# link.

It reads "Holton Collegiate"?

What I was referring to is an engraving which reads simply 'Collegiate' yet which was a Holton made horn...

 

[turf3]

I'm 90% sure it says "Holton Collegiate" and not just "Collegiate", but it's 100 miles away so I can't confirm for sure. However it's marked it's clearly the Couturier design, which can't be mistaken as it has a one piece C#/G# key.

 

[PigSquealer]

OK, but my Holton Collegiate soprano is identical to Couturier and Lyon and Healy sopranos; and it has zero common features with Holton-mahde Holton branded sopranos of the same general age. As far as I'm concerned it's a Couturier, even if the factory had been sold 6 months earlier to L&H or Holton.

Far more interesting is the advert up above which seems to say that the Rudy Holtons had the linked G# key. Does anyone know if this is accurate? I know my Holton branded Holton made non-Rudy soprano, which had the extra keys, did NOT have the G# link.

Oh your sop is 100% Couturier design. L & H may have changed a few things to benefit production. I doubt that Frank changed anything.
Couturier were top pro goods and priced as such. The most expensive horns available.

Good catch on the linked G#. Honestly I don’t recall ever seeing this feature on any. The information above is from 1927 catalog.
This below is from 1928 catalog and not mentioned. Hummm, could be a limited one year thing to look for.

E.A. Couturier designed and patented the conical bore for those reading that don’t know.

 

[PigSquealer]

I'm 90% sure it says "Holton Collegiate" and not just "Collegiate", but it's 100 miles away so I can't confirm for sure. However it's marked it's clearly the Couturier design, which can't be mistaken as it has a one piece C#/G# key.

Interesting for a Collegiate to have the “Couturier design”. That mark disappeared largely by end of 1927.
This below should be close to yours. The shield design arrived I think around 1931 and still had “Holton Collegiate”.

HOLTON Collegiate - Silver Plate Photos | Saxophone.org

Saxophone.org - created by saxophone players for saxophone players. Features an active saxophone forum, buy sell trade your sax, saxophone museum, sax teachers and more.

www.saxophone.org

 

[turf3]

I think that's the engraving type of mine. As I said, the horn has the Couturier integrated C#/G# key, and other details of key work look exactly like Couturier/ LH sopranos, not Holton made. The tone holes are beveled, not straight; thumb ring not hook; shape of keys; etc . It may well be that the horn was made in a factory owned by LH or Holton; but it's clearly the Couturier design .

 

[JayeNM]

I have seen the hex shield design w/"collegiate" on it both with and without it also reading Holton....both on saxes and trumpets, for whatever it's worth...