Theory & Impro Do we really need theory?

[Targa]

Scouse comes from Lob Skaus which is Scandinavian - do they have grouse?

Yes, do you want the details?

 

[Tenor Viol]

It's just a working man's stew from Scandinavia. Scandinavia also has a foreign language like the north of England!!!

Swedish sailors brought their lob skaus (meat based hot-pot) to Liverpool and it was adopted in mid C19th hence Scouse.

The language bit is the North East and is a hangover from Dane Geld when the Vikings ruled the North East. Hence why many dialect words in Yorkshire / Northumberland have Scandinavian origins

 

[jbtsax]

I still fail to understand why I have been threatened with two portions of scouse. Is the meat really that tough?

 

[kevgermany]

Now that the tension's gone out of the thread, please keep it on track and useful.

 

[kevgermany]

I think that understanding or knowing the composer's thoughts adds a lot to music, especially when it's not a song. Lyrics generally help. The title may. But what was the inspiration for, say, Green Onions?

Good music should and does stand on it's own without explanation. But I've rejected much of it invite past due to lack of knowledge/understanding. Stravinsky's Rites of Spring for instance. It's not easy listening. It's not light entertainment. It was only when I saw a video of Leonard Bernstein coaching and rehearsing a youth orchestra as they prepared it for performance that I finally got it. It was also clear that as the musicians started to understand it, the music came to life.

Music's about emotion, entertainment, getting in touch with people's souls. It often tells a story or describes a scene. Theory gives us a vocabulary to discuss the mechanics of this. But how the contact is made comes from the magical chemistry of composer and performers.

 

[nigeld]

Good music should and does stand on it's own without explanation.

Yes and no. The "goodness" of music is subjective, and our appreciation of music depends on our cultural background - i.e. what we have learned consciously and unconsciously throughout our lives. I don't think I can tell whether a piece of classical Indian music is any good, because I don't have the cultural background, nor, I imagine, would a Martian necessarily be impressed by a Charlie Parker recording. Similarly, I cannot judge whether a Schiller poem is any good, because my German isn't up to it.

Individually, and as a society, we build up a musical vocabulary, and our appreciation of music is limited, more or less, by this. So if a composer wishes to extend this vocabulary, then an explanation will be useful, and probably necessary for some of us.

 

[Tenor Viol]

I still fail to understand why I have been threatened with two portions of scouse. Is the meat really that tough?

Only if @trimmy makes it... I will post my recipe over in the Jazz Recipes tonight - heading off to Birmingham now - top hats may feature

 

[rhysonsax]

Listening to a piece of music to appreciate it seems like a rather pointless activity.

Exactly, and I would hardly ever do it.

But sometimes people go on and on about how wonderful player xyz (that I don't like listening to) is and how much I'm missing because I just don't understand that he's at genius at doing abc. Eventually I think I'm missing out and I will go back for a listen. I may appreciate the abc then, but I don't feel the need to listen lots more, because it's not enjoyable for me.

Rhys

 

[Nick Wyver]

I don't think I can tell whether a piece of classical Indian music is any good, because I don't have the cultural background,

Why do you care if it's "any good" or not? Surely the question is: do you enjoy it? That, at least, should be very easy to judge.

 

[nigeld]

Why do you care if it's "any good" or not? Surely the question is: do you enjoy it? That, at least, should be very easy to judge.

If I don't enjoy a piece of music the first time I hear it, then I can decide whether it's worth making an effort to understand it better. Usually I don't bother - life's too short - but if a lot of other people think it's good then maybe it's worthwhile. When I was younger, I sang in a choir that performed a lot of "modern" choral music, and the work we put in opened up my ears to pieces that I came to enjoy a lot.

 

[kevgermany]

Good music should and does stand on it's own without explanation.

Yes and no. The "goodness" of music is subjective, and our appreciation of music depends on our cultural background

Agree. So my definition of good music means works in the context intended for the intended audience. Not on it's quality. This makes the most banal pop music good.

 

[ProfJames]

I like this. It is Mats Gustafson and he is an extremely talented and diverse saxophonist.........where is the theory...?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ5hMM6LOE8

 

[aldevis]

where is the theory...?

First of all they start from the interaction of natural harmonics between the saxophone and that fryingpan....
Luckily the theory behind the socalled free-jazz is yet to be developed, but I can hear consistent similarities in the last 50 years of this genre....

 

[ProfJames]

Just don't make a meal of it @aldevis

 

[aldevis]

Freejazz is the future: it is played by ear and it's free.

 

[Targa]

First of all they start from the interaction of natural harmonics between the saxophone and that fryingpan....

That percussionist is just derivative from this vocalist.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Freejazz is the future: it is played by ear and it's free.

Except for Peter Brotzman in which case it's £16.50

 

[Nick Wyver]

I like this. It is Mats Gustafson and he is an extremely talented and diverse saxophonist.........where is the theory...?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ5hMM6LOE8

Reminds me of what Evan Parker and Paul Lytton were doing 40 something years ago.

 

[jbtsax]

My definition of good music is it stands the test of time and repetition. Being popular does not make music good. A great deal of popular music to me is like paper plates and plastic utensils. It serves it purpose, but quickly loses its value. A piece of music is good to me if after hearing it 20 times, I want to listen to it again. Also if I hear it again after 20 years, it is like getting reacquainted with an old and dear friend. Another aspect is that I grow and change in my taste in music. What I like is much broader and diverse today than when I was a teenager.

 

[richardr]

But what was the inspiration for, say, Green Onions?

Wasn't it a studio improvisation? Many pop classics have happened that way.