Theory & Impro Do we really need theory?

[Chris]

I think it's time I stepped back from this one🙂, @Bernie you seem set in your ways which is fine.🙂
Both theory and good ears walk hand in hand when it comes to making good music.🙂
One without the other just makes the journey harder than it should be.🙂

Chris..🙂

 

[Bernie]

I'm sorry that you feel that way Bernie. From my vantage point, it is unfortunate that you don't know what you are missing. Music is a wonderfully complex organization of sounds and rhythms. The study of music goes back centuries. The ability to parrot a simple tune one has heard on an instrument is commendable, but does not even scratch the surface of understanding music as a whole.

Don't worry about it jbt, honestly I'm not missing anything of importance, I do actually understand quite a bit of theory, I just don't think its what music is really about.

Very strong late entry in the "how patronising can I be?" competition by the way.

 

[BigMartin]

Very strong late entry in the "how patronising can I be?" competition by the way.

Except that, judging from your description of your experience and the recordings I've heard of @jbtsax's playing, he's a more experienced and accomplished musican than you. Sorry if that's a bit blunt. It's wise to listen to such people.

 

[saxendd]

Hi all, In the light of recent developments in my own @saxendd world I have been reading the various threads expressing opinions on reading music with a lot of interest. Thanks to you all for sharing.

At this point in time, I can only contribute as a saxophone enthusiast and not as an accomplished player. I have documented my unconventional and informal approach in which deeply ingrained love, passion, ambition and determination feature more than formal learning. Having said that, I've not ever felt that acquiring some theoretical knowledge of music would not help me to attain my aims ... dareisay my ever-evolving aims given that practical experience and accomplishment whilst blowing air and pressing buttons gets added into the mix as time passes.

I think it was jbstax who mentioned something about learning by rote that chimed in with my childhood experience of learning the times tables (2 to 12 and then the 16 times tables being the platform that we acquired in this fashion as children; and to this day I can rattle these off with not even a blink). Why? They have become imbedded in my knowledge base to the extent that only memory loss (heaven forbid, touch wood and all that malarkey) can prevent me from being able to access when necessary.

When I take an objective look at my fledgling reading skills, it strikes me that I only really need to learn once & after that it appears to become reinforcement through repetition and refreshing myself on the rules.

To say that I am loving it is an understatement! There is the joy and psychological boost of making progress at something which hitherto appeared impenetrable and far too complicated for real relevance to music making. Given my personality and tendency to crazy ways of seeing things, I find myself marvelling at this turnaround and I instinctively know that it will be an immense help to my practical playing on the horn.

So from a strictly personal perspective, did i need this level of theory? Because "a level of theory" has become part of my know-how I have to say an emphatic yes. But remember this is strictly personal and I fully understand that it's to each her own.

 

[jbtsax]

Don't worry about it jbt, honestly I'm not missing anything of importance, I do actually understand quite a bit of theory, I just don't think its what music is really about.

Very strong late entry in the "how patronising can I be?" competition by the way.

Actually Bernie, you may be right that you are not "missing anything of importance". Best of luck in all of your musical endeavors. 😀

 

[U CAN CALL ME AL]

Interesting article:-

Jazz in Acedemia​

 

[saxendd]

Very interesting article; thanks @U CAN CALL ME AL for sharing it with us ... (and sometime later on) to be honest the entire website is 'interesting' what a treasure! With a slight nod to the topic I found the last paragraph of A Charlie Parker Story to be spot on.

 

[aldevis]

I think he got his wife to play them, I reckon he just told her to look serious and bang on the piano keys at random.

OK:
Theory: bad
Jazz: "music of conformity"
Messiaen: a guy that asked his wife to bang piano keys at random.

Next?
Chords? Chromatic scales? Sharps? Flats?

 

[ProfJames]

Has anyone got a dictionary I can borrow? I have need it since post number...................2

 

[Alice]

Some of the tunes that I have learned to play soley by ear: Frere Jaques, Yankee Doodle, Camptown Races, Twinkle Twinkle, Just around the corner, there's a rainbow in the sky, Misty, Eye Level (to see if I could remember it from my childhood days on the recorder) The Simpsons theme song and See ya later Alligator.

 

[aldevis]

Camptown races sing a song?

Simpsons' theme is not obvious: mixolydian mode, you know...

 

[Alice]

Camptown races sing a song?

Simpsons' theme is not obvious: mixolydian mode, you know...

I had to look that up, thank you Aldevis! "the mode represented by the natural diatonic scale G–G (containing a minor 7th)."

 

[Tenor Viol]

Camptown races sing a song?

Simpsons' theme is not obvious: mixolydian mode, you know...

Having played a version of it in one of my orchestras, I can testify to its rhythmic complexity...

 

[aldevis]

I had to look that up, thank you Aldevis! "the mode represented by the natural diatonic scale G–G (containing a minor 7th)."

And I was actually wrong:
The Simpsons' is actually in the Lydian Dominant mode. (Or maybe Lydian, it does not meet the 7th)

 

[Alice]

And I was actually wrong:
The Simpsons' is actually in the Lydian Dominant mode. (Or maybe Lydian, it does not meet the 7th)

Thank you for that information! I'm reading about it now.

 

[aldevis]

Thank you for that information! I'm reading about it now.

As long as you don't upset some member: theory might be bad for your ears.

 

[Alice]

As long as you don't upset some member: theory might be bad for your ears.

Well when something interests me, I want to learn all about it and absorb it like a sponge.

 

[aldevis]

Well when something interests me, I want to learn all about it and absorb it like a sponge.

Start from "F" then.
You will understand how the F lydian mode relates to the C major scale.

FABDCAFDBC

 

[Alice]

Start from "F" then.
You will understand how the F lydian mode relates to the C major scale.

FABDCAFDBC

Oh thank you, yes.

 

[jbtsax]

Ooh. Now I'm excited. I'm going to start a thread entitled : "Do we really need modes"