Saxophones Do different brands have their own tone? What makes a pro sax better?

[PigSquealer]

I just did a blind test for my wife, who has very good ears

Is your wife a musician? 😉

 

[kamak]

Is your wife a musician? 😉

Indeed! She plays violin.

 

[LostCircuits]

Indeed! She plays violin.

And I thought she might be a baker.

 

[LostCircuits]

No idea how it will turn out other that I'll be better than it ever was.

Ok, I believe you!

 

[PigSquealer]

To the sensitive talented player. Ten sequencal units of one make will feel & sound different right off the production line.
Common to mass production products.
To the average listener, nope. This is true for ten different makers of altos, any vin IMHO.

I once made a recording post at the other place. This of five altos, all different makers & vintages. IIRC I used the same reed, lig and mouthpiece. I blindly listed the recordings. Then listed the altos played. Asked the question if anyone could identify the sax sound to brand. I think @LostCircuits got one or two. Otherwise zero. The most common response was, “you sound like you on an alto”.

Now to support the post above by @kamak. I’ve had a similar experience here at the barn, but on a Comm ll. Yeah, this below contradicts my above comments.

February 12, 2023. Halftime during Superbowl Sunday. I replied to a local listing. A Comm ll listed @ $100.
A mad dash to purchase and return before the end of game. For the price, I didn’t look for a tattoo inside it’s mouth 😉
After the game it got a quick review and a few drops of oil. I didn’t expect much. Maybe three minutes and off to the side.
Five minutes and a few more spots of oil….and another….

After an hour + I thought it best to stop. Well worthy of some TLC. Actually the most pleasing alto ever. COA time.
Sitting at my bench drooling over my newly acquired sax. Both Ma & Mini Squealer entered the barn. “What sax were you playing tonight?? Your sound, tone and timekeeping has never been better!”
They had NEVER stepped into the barn to comment before. Years….

Yep, there can be a difference.

FWIW
Ma is classical trained on piano. She plays on our 1920 baby grand Kanabe. This being from 1966 onwards.
Mini is classical trained on the same piano. Additional experience & training on keyboards and full drum kit.

All said, both true. There can be a difference or not from my real experience.
Peers are honest from solicited inquiries. The net can be brutal ! Especially that other place.
Family is honest….or they leave the room.

 

[PigSquealer]

And I thought she might be a baker.

View attachment 33965

That’s no French Palmier ! More like a robust Oreja from Mexico City.
Although in Florida where @kamak lives the tone could be in between. Like a C Melody being in the middle of five🤪

 

[PigSquealer]

Indeed! She plays violin.

That’s great !
I’m sure the general audience here is greatly relieved…
No bagpipes or accordion.
I already knew she wasn’t a guitarist. There was no comment like “ you sound great, but you need to play in tune”🤣.

 

[LostCircuits]

That’s no French Palmier ! More like a robust Oreja from Mexico City.
Although in Florida where @kamak lives the tone could be in between. Like a C Melody being in the middle of five🤪

I think I need glasses, I read a C-Melody in the midlife crisis. Why did I read this, must be the Freud in me.

 

[PigSquealer]

I think I need glasses, I read a C-Melody in the midlife crisis. Why did I read this, must be the Freud in me.

Idk ? Like between white and red, an rosé ? Meeting halfway? No transposition needed ? Honestly I don’t know wine. I do know that a C tenor is “stuck in the middle with you “ ! 🤪
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, and here I am, stuck in the middle with you🤣

 

[Pete Thomas]

I can't tell any difference between a YTS-32 and 25 if both are in good nick and leak free.

I very much doubt I could tell the difference either.

 

[cappers]

I'm unfortunately not blessed with golden ears. I can't tell any difference between a YTS-32 and 25 if both are in good nick and leak free.

I very much doubt I could tell the difference either.

Now I'm worried Two experienced and accomplished players say they couldn't or probably couldn't tell the difference between a YTS-25 and a YTS-32, yet my wife and I can.
Are we imagining it? Is my technique so poor that I sound different on them? Both are in good playing condition. I'm not talking major differences just a subtle but noticeable difference in the richness and 'warmth' between the two.

 

[thomsax]

Back in the late 40's and 50's there were more saxes with differnt voices. The Mark VI reached the market and most saxophone producers gave up or made saxes that played in the style of MkVI. In the 60's/70's it was just King, Martin, Buffet and Keilwerth who produced saxes with thier own voices.

 

[kamak]

And I thought she might be a baker.

View attachment 33965

Actually she does bake too, but prefers to cook which she is very good at.

She also had a brief stint playing a curved soprano. Wanted to try playing it. Ultimately she just likes stringed instruments particularly the violin. She's played since middle school, so its her thing. Stopped for awhile but got back into it more recently and jumped right back in.

 

[cappers]

I realise that a YTS-32 is not the same as a YTS-62 but they have similarities wrt bore etc and sound profile. @Stephen Howard called the 32 a "poor man's 62".

In his reveiw of the 62 he wrote "Tonewise the 62 starts out warmer than its cheaper brethren, and if you want to accentuate that warmth or pull more cut and brightness from the horn it'll simply follow you.

This is what I'm alluding to. For me the 32 has a warmer richer fundamental tone than the 23/25 and sounds a bit more refined.

No matter, both are great fun to play.

 

[Dr G]

I realise that a YTS-32 is not the same as a YTS-62 but they have similarities wrt bore etc and sound profile. @Stephen Howard called the 32 a "poor man's 62".

In his reveiw of the 62 he wrote "Tonewise the 62 starts out warmer than its cheaper brethren, and if you want to accentuate that warmth or pull more cut and brightness from the horn it'll simply follow you.

This is what I'm alluding to. For me the 32 has a warmer richer fundamental tone than the 23/25 and sounds a bit more refined.

No matter, both are great fun to play.

The difference between your two horns could be due to the difference between a well-fitted neck cork on one and a poor fit on the other.

Yes, there are some core differences between marques and models, but there are also changes in tone and response on the same instrument due to wear and adjustment. For instance, my Ref 36 went from good to great after having a setup. Same pads, etc., but the resonance was greatly increased. It wasn’t just me noticing - everyone in my quartet noticed it as I was just warming up in our rehearsal hall. It played like a different horn or at least a different neck.

 

[LostCircuits]

The difference between your two horns could be due to the difference between a well-fitted neck cork on one and a poor fit on the other.

Yes, there are some core differences between marques and models, but there are also changes in tone and response on the same instrument due to wear and adjustment. For instance, my Ref 36 went from good to great after having a setup. Same pads, etc., but the resonance was greatly increased. It wasn’t just me noticing - everyone in my quartet noticed it as I was just warming up in our rehearsal hall. It played like a different horn or at least a different neck.

Neck cork and neck tenon are the most overlooked factors that make a huge difference in tone/timbre of the horn. The better the fit, the warmer the tone and the easier the response, especially in low and soft notes. It's one of the first things I check before I even look at any pads. And yes, I had the same experience, both with cork and tenon, it can be like pulling a curtain off the horn or taking the bubble wrap off. And it is one of the reasons I don't like detachable neck sopranos.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Back in the late 40's and 50's there were more saxes with differnt voices. The Mark VI reached the market and most saxophone producers gave up or made saxes that played in the style of MkVI. In the 60's/70's it was just King, Martin, Buffet and Keilwerth who produced saxes with thier own voices.

60's/70's? You left out Buffet, Borgani, Rampone, Couesnon, Pierret (just about), Schenklaars, Dolnet - and let's not forget about Yamaha. I've probably missed a few...but none of these can be considered Mark VI-alikes.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I've probably missed a few.

SML and Grassi (one of which can’t remember but looked very much like a copy of MKVI)

 

[JayeNM]

Not certain WHY this thread is back...it isn't like the years have changed over the last 20 years.

But to question of OP title:

1) YES, and it isn't by an insignificant amount like 10-15%. A model's tonality is determined by its design specs. The hardware in your hands has an intrinsic tonality. Period. You can massage it one way or another ...to a DEGREE (and that degree is not 75%+ or whatever other random figure people assign it) with mouthpiece and blowing/embochure changes, but the starting point of the tone is intrinsic to the model's design.

2) Pro horns generally have more to do with build precision, key action, and blowing response. Yes for the most part many companies may have tweaked SOMETHING in the design to change the tonality a bit (often this will be the neck spec, maybe the bow as well, maybe even the body tube) but it is blowing response and action which usually set a pro horn apart from a base model.

 

[thomsax]

60's/70's? You left out Buffet, Borgani, Rampone, Couesnon, Pierret (just about), Schenklaars, Dolnet - and let's not forget about Yamaha. I've probably missed a few...but none of these can be considered Mark VI-alikes.

I mean new design. Buffet S1, Keilwerth with wide bow. The Martin, King Super 20 .... are saxes with differnt voices. That goes for older saxes as well. The Schenkelaars tenor wide bow and Dolnet tenor on SH Woodwind are stecils. Yamaha 61 was/is close to a MkVI tonewise.

SML and Grassi (one of which can’t remember but looked very much like a copy of MKVI)

Grassi! The real SML, before the company was sold,had thier own design.