Saxophones Carrying a tenor on a (motor)bike?

[Targa]

If you're under steering on a bike you're in serious trouble.

'Same as' I meant use the throttle to steer, the actual technique is of course different.

 

[kevgermany]

Went up to the new industrial estate, after the units had closed, to practice the slow manoeuvring 'figure of eights' etc.in their yard. OMG I am totally useless! And I've got my test on this bit in two weeks

Temptation is to lean in like you would on a normal corner. Then you overdo it and need power to avoid dropping it. Trick with this is keeping the bike almost upright, your weight directly above it and minimum speed. It's right about balancing lean with power, but don't overdo it. You end up going too fast and running wide.

Don't turn on full lock, keep a little in reserve. Give yourself space, don't turn too early, but don't go too wide either. You can use chalk instead of cones. Makes recovery from wobbles easier as there's nothing in the way.

 

[kevgermany]

You need a bike with a roof - anyone remeber the Quasar?

No.
Yes. BMW do something similar, but with a much smaller engine.

 

[kevgermany]

I loved the linked brakes on my brother's Guzzi. Just a slight adjustment to riding style needed. But you could brake a lot deeper into a corner when you were pushing it.

But let's keep the thread to helping Jay get through her test.

 

[Ads]

No.
Yes. BMW do something similar, but with a much smaller engine.

BMW stopped making bubblecars Kev - and they were nothing whatsoever like a Quasar

 

[jonf]

No.
Yes. BMW do something similar, but with a much smaller engine.

The C1, 125 or 200cc Rotax engine. they only made them for a couple of years, ending in 2002. Catastrophic marketing failure. Lots of people put it down to the UK helmet laws not being relaxed to allow riding it without a helmet (they have a roof, seatbelts and crumple zone). However, even countries which did allow them to be used without lids had very poor sales.

 

[kevgermany]

The C1, 125 or 200cc Rotax engine. they only made them for a couple of years, ending in 2002. Catastrophic marketing failure. Lots of people put it down to the UK helmet laws not being relaxed to allow riding it without a helmet (they have a roof, seatbelts and crumple zone). However, even countries which did allow them to be used without lids had very poor sales.

Still quite a few running around Munich. No helmets, drivers strapped in. Never fancied one myself

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...Xx1B9E&usg=AFQjCNFxOi-UmUVyW5GSHbcucHYoa7UdKA

 

[oldpuffer]

Jay,
Be careful following ALL the advice posted about the slow speed control. I was formerly a Police motorcyclist so will pass on my advice.
To start with.... sit on the bike like a 'sack of spuds'... sit 'in' the bike and relax your neck and shoulders, this relieves tension and stops you tensing your arms and hands and therefore makes steering smoother.
First thing to do is learn how to balance, pull away in 1st gear and trickle along as slow as you can without wobbles, in a straight line. Stop the bike gently using the back brake only, 'feel' the pedal under your foot (even wear soft shoes just to get this) and use the clutch, NOT the throttle to take power away from the back wheel as you stop, keep the back brake ON and see if you can stop totally, upright and balanced, even if only for a second, then release the brake, let out the clutch an pull away.
Keep practicing this, it will give you tons of confidence that YOU have control over the bike and not the other way around. If you get really good at this you can balance, stationary, with the back brake still applied for a surprising amount of time. It's admittedly strange how this works, (its physics), if you get so you can do this it will put a big grin on your face and looks cool as well.
Once you are confident that you have this under control move on to steering, as said before you don't lean around the cones... this indicates you are going too fast and your turns will get wider and wider until you fail. It's better to use what's called 'body english' to control the bike, your 'sack of spuds' arse, combined with your relaxed hands and CLUTCH (not throttle) control with the back brake for extra confidence will get you through. Avoid using the front brake as this unsettles the bike and you will have to put your foot down.
Don't stay practicing too long, tiredness and frustration will get you down, take little breaks.

Good luck.... Martin

 

[Jay]

Jay,
Be careful following ALL the advice posted about the slow speed control. I was formerly a Police motorcyclist so will pass on my advice.
To start with.... sit on the bike like a 'sack of spuds'... sit 'in' the bike and relax your neck and shoulders, this relieves tension and stops you tensing your arms and hands and therefore makes steering smoother.
First thing to do is learn how to balance, pull away in 1st gear and trickle along as slow as you can without wobbles, in a straight line. Stop the bike gently using the back brake only, 'feel' the pedal under your foot (even wear soft shoes just to get this) and use the clutch, NOT the throttle to take power away from the back wheel as you stop, keep the back brake ON and see if you can stop totally, upright and balanced, even if only for a second, then release the brake, let out the clutch an pull away.
Keep practicing this, it will give you tons of confidence that YOU have control over the bike and not the other way around. If you get really good at this you can balance, stationary, with the back brake still applied for a surprising amount of time. It's admittedly strange how this works, (its physics), if you get so you can do this it will put a big grin on your face and looks cool as well.
Once you are confident that you have this under control move on to steering, as said before you don't lean around the cones... this indicates you are going too fast and your turns will get wider and wider until you fail. It's better to use what's called 'body english' to control the bike, your 'sack of spuds' arse, combined with your relaxed hands and CLUTCH (not throttle) control with the back brake for extra confidence will get you through. Avoid using the front brake as this unsettles the bike and you will have to put your foot down.
Don't stay practicing too long, tiredness and frustration will get you down, take little breaks.

Good luck.... Martin

Thanks Martin, much appreciated

 

[richardr]

I taught myself low speed control on my 125 before I passed my test and I should think Jay will do the same. It soon comes naturally and transfers to a bigger bike in due course. But I must admit that the best example of low speed control that I ever saw and could never emulate was a Police motorcyclist who had stopped me just to have a look at my BMW. After that he did a U-turn from standstill in Leeds Road, Nelson on a heavily laden Norton Interpol. Wow!

 

[Jay]

Been having some issues with the bike instruction - or lack of instruction.
We went to the Mod 1 training site and were just sent to do the exercises, one at a time, while the other 5 hung around and watched.

No tips, no teaching. One lady locked up her rear brake on the emergency stop, slid badly and came off. She was very brave but very rattled. I couldn't get up to speed on the swerve, couldn't make myself accelerate towards it, cos I didn't know what to do when I got there. Was just sent round again to 'go faster'. And then, since I couldn't they cancelled my test.

Went out for a lesson and just got told off and shouted at all the way round. Not a single 'well done, that was good' - silence when it was good, horribleness when it wasn't. Found myself fighting back tears - and this is supposed to be fun!

Anyway, long story short I'm not going back there.

Tried a different instructor today, nearer work too. OMG what a difference! Calm and pleasant. I learned more in 2 hours than I have in 8 lessons at the other place. He sees what you're doing wrong, and finds an exercise to sort it out, has a way of explaining so that you 'get it'. So good. Found my shoulders descending from up round my ears, as I got used to not getting shouted at, for basically being a beginner.

So - a bit fed-up that I didn't find this new guy at the start of the holidays, as I think I'd be rid of my L plates by now, if I had. Never mind, it's going to be OK now.

 

[Jeanette]

Oh so sorry to hear it has been an awful experience but sounds like you are sorted now.

Good luck with the test 🙂

Jx

 

[kevgermany]

Do you ever wonder how they get their instructors tickets? And what kind of monitoring goes on afterwards?

 

[Jay]

It turns out this place has a reputation for the shouting, swearing and nastiness. It's deliberate, the owner is ex-army and his method of teaching is to terrify you into not doing it incorrectly. The son is moody, and when in a bad mood, just lazy, won't interact or teach, turns into his shouting father.

But they advertise widely, you pay up front for a 'course', and by the time you get to the point where you think 'I hate this' and bail out, it's a bit late. I don't suppose I'll see any of my upfront money back and probably that's how it goes.

There are inspectors round periodically, they watch the CBT teaching but they can't hear what's being said through the earpieces during a road ride.

 

[Jeanette]

It turns out this place has a reputation for the shouting, swearing and nastiness. It's deliberate, the owner is ex-army and his method of teaching is to terrify you into not doing it incorrectly. The son is moody, and when in a bad mood, just lazy, won't interact or teach, turns into his shouting father.

But they advertise widely, you pay up front for a 'course', and by the time you get to the point where you think 'I hate this' and bail out, it's a bit late. I don't suppose I'll see any of my upfront money back and probably that's how it goes.

There are inspectors round periodically, they watch the CBT teaching but they can't hear what's being said through the earpieces during a road ride.

Wouldn't hurt to report your experience though.
Jx

 

[Jay]

As it happens, a survey has just arrived in my inbox, cos they're going for some sort of award or other!

 

[Jeanette]

As it happens, a survey has just arrived in my inbox, cos they're going for some sort of award or other!

Talk about timing 😉

Jx

 

[kevgermany]

As it happens, a survey has just arrived in my inbox, cos they're going for some sort of award or other!

I guess you'll be equally forthright, but a lot more polite. Bullying and intimidation like this is unacceptable.

 

[Jay]

I guess you'll be equally forthright, but a lot more polite. Bullying and intimidation like this is unacceptable.

I will just say how I've found it. Maybe it works for some though I can't help feeling everyone would prefer to be treated pleasantly! It definitely doesn't suit most women though it seems, from a womens' online MCC, but then, they also have a bit of a 'silly women, playing with boys' toys' attitudes, so maybe they don't care about that.

Two instructors I've talked to since (today's and one who now only does advanced courses, but used to also teach beginners) that said they pick up a lot of women learners from this outfit and have to spend time getting over the confidence loss and fear that they've installed. Well I'm glad the good guys are benefitting, but it shouldn't be happening in the first place.

Ah well, I'm out of it now and learning with a good teacher and pleasant person.

 

[richardr]

From the advertisements I see that a "boot camp" approach to fitness training seems popular. I wonder whether the same idea is becoming popular in other areas such as motorbike training. If so, people who train that way should say so, for the benefit of people who never wanted to be soldiers.