Cannonball T5-BL and Keilworth Shadow Tenor reviews

Linky Lee

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As some of you may know I'm in the hunt for a new tenor sax to upgrade from my Prelude by Selmer TS700.

Today I had the chance to give the two above saxophones a decent blow and a brief encounter with a Yani 902 which I won't write about as I only got 10 minutes on the thing.

Before reading this do remember it is all personal and very much opinion and will differ hugely for every other person.

The short review is that the cannonball was clunky, and buttery under the hands and the octave mechanism was awful, there was a centimeter of play before the key moved the nipple on the crook, which got reduced by half once I pointed it out to one of the representatives. The sound was boring and unlively and a bit brash and uncontrolled.
The Keilworth was better and managed to still suck quite efficiently. One huge problem was that the key pearls where huge! and hugely dished! so big that your fingers were slopping all over the place and you had to play it with straight fingers to feel secure, forcing bad technique onto you. The D key was a complete peal key width to far inwards and was either very uncomfortable or made you angle your hand so the thumb took lots of weight and the Eb key was impossible to get as it sat under your ring finger. It has adjustable palm keys that one of the technicians didn't even know about until I told him after asking how they worked and if they locked securely (Honestly some people don't use their eyes!). The sound was much nicer yet it didn't quite have the quality that the I noticed from the Yani in the 10 minutes I had with it. The keilworth played nicely in the low end but the top end was rubbish, thinned out much more than the cannonball and the Yani was far superior to them all but quite a way.

As I didn't get enough time on the Yani I found my Prelude to be tenfold times better than both of these saxes, both supposed to be top of the range and at premium prices.

The cannonball's finish was well done but personally it looked foul. The Shadow was equally as bad, though the engraving was much nicer Though the black key pearls was a negative. The stones in the cannonball were what I believe is known as 'tigers eye' an orange like colour that looks very very nice, though pearls have a nicer feel to them and would be much better on an instrument that wasn't black.

The keilworth really opened up a lot when played at louder volumes, but the cannonball was just pathetic, it was like a sloth. and was very uninspiring.

I'd like to have another go of the Yani, especially alongside a 901 for comparison and the TJ Sig custom and Yamaha 62. Hopefully I can work out a way to get a Hanson to try out along side them as well.

It just goes to show how good the Prelude is, especially at it's price point. Though I've found it isn't up to the job action wise, it get's left behind on some faster passages, especially on the bell keys and lots of G# and front F key use.
The tone is quite reed heavy, which is a nice sound but there is too much of the high pitch grating reed sound that I don't like.
 
Germans.

But huge hands would of made it worse. The D key was so much closer to your palm than anything else I have ever seen.

And you thought vintage horns were the ones with dodgy key layouts! A slap dash bell key cluster on a high pitch saxophone is easier to navigate than a the keilworth's bottom stack. You either tear your finger to shreds, or make it physically impossible to play Eb in sacrifice for your ring finger and give yourself thumb cramp at the same time. Sounds like fun fun fun.
 
You know what they say about big hands.......:whistle:

My English friends:
Don't forget that the Anglo/Saxons are descended from Germanic stock, so genetically your hands should fit as well. Click....ducking for cover.
>:)
Sorry, just stirring the pot (I'm half German, half Celtic myself).

Thanks for the review. One man's trash is another man's treasure, but it is always entertaining and educational to hear what each person thinks of the same gear available.

This just shows how important it is to play test before you take the plunge.

Cheers.
 
What is meant by the Cannonball being 'buttery'? would it be kind of unresponsive, or sloppy, or 'un-definite'? It could have been poorly set-up, given the octave mech problem.

It sounds like the Keilwerth would be totally unsuitable for my smallish hands.

Cheers, Bob
 
I found that with the Keilwerth. When testing saxes recently I only ran up and down a scale to know I could never play the thing - my hands are just too small - or is the sax badly designed? The weird thing is I was looking forward to testing this sax as I'd previously played a mates 50's vintage Keilwerth tenor which was excellent - but didnt seem to have the keys designed for giants problem.

Lee - I ended up buying a Yani T-902 after much road testing. It's a fantastic sax. If you need any more info on it let me know. Also, if you like that sort of sound do try out the Mauriat 66R - its a monster.

D
 
I can recommend Yani tenors, too, very easy to get your hands around, even if they are on the smaller side, with a comfortable and positive feeling. I have a T-900 which is about 12 years old and is I think the forerunner of the 901/2.

I also owned a Yamaha 23 tenor, a bit of an oldie and not the best-looking of horns, but felt and played fine, so by extension (and also being a happy YAS62 owner) the more modern YTS62 should be worth a look too.

Cheers, Bob
 
The Mauriats are what I'm looking at though I think the system 76 is fatter and beefier. Much more like what I want from my Tenor.

I want big smooth sound and the possibility to get really honking.

The Keilworth is just badly designed. It's a fault designing it for large hands, as by definition that means there is a minority market. There is a small enough merket for 3K saxophones anyway!

By the Cannonball being 'buttery' I meant it didn't give any feedback, the keys all closed and just went 'bang' over the holes and just felt clunky because it was too soft. The saxophone wasn't terribly set up, I inspected the mechanism and the springs were remarkable shorter than other tenors, obviously trying to save every little pound for those super duper stones. 😛

I like saxophones to give feedback and response. I like a bit of resistance in the blow, it's something to push against. It's a fine art balancing the amount of resistance so it feel responsive without being hindering.

I find many modern horns are awful in regards of 'feel' they may be consistantly better in tune, and have a more even tone but they aren't fun to play on and just feel awkward. The Yani's and Yamaha's seem to be good and the Mauriats are bit closer to the feel I'm after, I'm undecided on what sax I'm going to go for. I need to spend more time on them and have the lot all in one room to compare, including a Hanson tenor.

The 902 is a bit out of my price range though. I can't really afford more than ?1600.
 
One of Keilwerth's main endorsees is Clarence Clemons form Bruce Springsteen's band- he's got to be about 6'6" and built like a tank, which makes sense in this context. You can imagine the marketing department at Keilwerth thinking, "we need a high profile player with hands like shovels... hm"... "Wait a minute, I've got an Idea!!"
 
Linky_Lee wrote:
The Mauriats are what I'm looking at though I think the system 76 is fatter and beefier. Much more like what I want from my Tenor.

Just goes to show how important it is to try these things yourself and not just go on what others say. I really didnt like the System 76. Sounded and felt totally dead to me - and the neck on it seemed to be at a strange angle. It felt uncomfortable to me anyway. Whereas the 66R was >:)

The lead tenor in the Basie Band plays a System 76 - say no more.

Linky_Lee wrote:
I want big smooth sound and the possibility to get really honking.


>:) >:) The Mauriat or the Yani wil do that for you. Have fun.
 
Just a short note - I've played black nickel tenor SX90's now for about 16 years. The larger keys feel somewhat funny and as though you should have giant hands - but only at first, - the concave pearls and the what seems to be a heavier action soon becomes second nature. I have smallish hands and these days all these oriental diddy men horns with convex pearls feel just too flimsy.

I've tried quite a few Cannonballs over the last few years and always found - particularly the Big Bell series to be excellent horns - the mad megs were for me a touch too much - as I prefer a horn with a few coats of laquer. A Raven alto that I tried was absolutely non-plus ultra.

As an afterthought the last SX90 tenor that I bought - I tried five identical models and was not impressed with any of'em - the sixth one two weeks later was perfect and that's the one I bought, and it's still spot on.

When trying horns and particularly when offering your experience as a reviewer, you should do your utmost to make sure you have played a perfectly setup horn. I have an intermediate alto which has a top notch setup that'll outplay any average setup high end big five horn.

Beware of mediocrity especially when it has a high price tag.

gruss - spike
 
Good info their Spike.

My review was just a little something of my thoughts and first impressions really.

No review can be definitive, though Steven Howard does good technical reviews, but I'm no way qualified to do something like that!

The 66R is the more expensive of the two in the 'vintage series' Mauriat actually have huge numbers of saxophones, all slightly different. There is a horn in that company that you will like. Probably not the best, but there is one that you would be comfortable and happy with.

The Mauriats don't seem to get any higher in price than the 66R. Which is good because I think anything above that is most likely paying for the name, everything that comes with that and those silly little 'add-ons' that don't really make any difference to the saxophone.
It makes you wonder what's so bad about the Series III that Selmer had to put a C# vent on to make it in tune, since they and other companies have produced horns with fine intonation many times before.
 
I have a thing against Cannonball saxes.... yukk

It would not be so bad if the salesman in Dawsons Manchester... (Mr Pollard who should be named and shamed) had not basically lied though his teeth to me to try and off load one.

When I got my DG I took it in just to "bite my thumb at him." I just can't stand assistants who think they know what you want better than you.
 
I know exactly what you mean... salesmen I mean.

The cannonball was fairly 'yukk' to play on. I didn't take a second look at it after I'd played it.

My mum had a look at some of the saxes and said she will try and help me out with cost to make sure I get the one that suits me best. I told not to worry, I won't be buying one of these (cannonball)... or these....(Keilworth).
 
Hey there Linky,

Good review of the two horns and I think there is something in the sizing of the keys. I have rather large paws and when doing a bit of playtesting, I found the Keilwerth fitted my hands perfectly.

I was playing a SX90-R not a Shadow, so this isn't a comparison of like with like. However, I did find the Keilwerths had a big bore, big sound and required a lot of air. In comparison, some saxes almost felt pinched, like trying to push too much air through too small a hole.

Down to individual taste I guess, but I did like the Keilwerth, Selmer Ref 36 (WAAAAAAY too expensive) and the Yani 991/2 (Still pretty pricey).
 

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