Saxophones Can you tell what it is yet? New purchase...

[Colin the Bear]

Those scrolls are very selmer mouthpiece

 

[DavidUK]

Looked at that already. Selmer MP scrolls are a bit simpler.

http://theowanne.com/knowledge/mouthpiece-museum/selmer

 

[DavidUK]

Dabico?

http://bassic-sax.info/version5/vintage-saxes/european-made-saxes/hammerschmidt/stencil-info/dabico

 

[Melissa]

Don't Selmers have the scrollwork to the bell flange too?.. sorry, never had one yet, but like the 22,26 and such? I can't find a macro of one! Anyone here have an sba or earlier?

No, not diabico, that seems to be very different, horsehoe octave and different T pad, I am still on the Guénot but am still not near satisfied, is @milandro around anywhere?!!

 

[Ivan]

Could be another place called Paris? There's a place in Japan called Scotland. They make Whisky. Made in Scotland.

A quick google turned up 2 in Canada, 16 in USA, 1 in Panama and 1 in Russia.

 

[kevgermany]

Dabico?

http://bassic-sax.info/version5/vintage-saxes/european-made-saxes/hammerschmidt/stencil-info/dabico

Don't think so.

 

[DavidUK]

There are some similarities, the pearls for instance, but Dabicos were stencilled by other makers. It could be one of those other makers but that's no further forward. I emailed Helen again over the weekend with this, and another mystery sax. Hopefully she'll drop in...

 

[Melissa]

I believe I have it, that Foote tenor on the ebay is a Rene Guénot 🙂
Here is that sax: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Chas-E-Foote-Paris-Silver-Tenor-saxophone-/111745365662?

And here is the Guénot tenor, identical table, flange with square engraving, guard feet, buffer feet, what else can I say!
http://www.bluespeter1.de/tenor-saxophone-seite-iii/

As far as the Super ref is, I think it is fair to say it must also be Guénot, though I am still researching as I wish to be 100%.`

 

[Melissa]

Adding that unusual key again, if anyone has seen one like this on any other sax, please let me know!

 

[DavidUK]

Yes, that is the...

 

[DavidUK]

Is it a G# trill key Melissa?

If not, what does it do?

 

[kevgermany]

Is it a G# trill key Melissa?

If not, what does it do?

Certainly looks like a G/G# triller.

 

[Melissa]

Yes, G# trill, bizarre shape, and yes, almost frog shape lol

 

[Ads]

Yes, that is the...

Good Grief - long time since I`ve seen Ki-Ki .. that`s Kermit`s Aunt BTW, she moved over to the UK to star in Hectors House while Kermit was still a tadpole , she never moved back to the USA, her Husband played Gabriel the toad in Bagpuss , he hid his American accent very well but hid banjo playing ability gave him away . it was the first time a Frog had played a Toad on British television and it caused a riot with the Unions (typical of the late 60s - early 70s)

 

[JayeNM]

EDIT : Ack, sorry folks....what an auspicious start for me on this site :0.....I misread the pics in post 7 as being of this horn in question; in fact, it was Milandro posting pics of a Hammerschmidt.

So I more or less retract my prior attribution.

But I am going to chime in here with some (updated) observations, here, as David UK directed me to this discussion.

Some observations:

look at the escutcheons (i.e. 'feet') of the posts on the subject saxophone. They are round shape.

So, a matching suspect would likely have round feet.

Next, the G# trill key is an OLD detail....I have these before....on a very old Holton or two, from the 20's. So, this horn has a number of details of a pre-1940;s instrument....

I look at post feet, I look at ferrules, I look at key touches, octave mechanisms, and the fin armature of the F# keycup which closes the G# keycup. Then the octave mechanism. For me, these are more defining features than, say....keyguards and bell braces and such .....

But my issue with the Guenot attribution is they do not have compatible details in many aspects. The Guenot has oval post feet, some posts are ganged onto a single foot (spat keys), there is also some ribbed construction; the G key is detached from the upper stack rod and has a pair of arms extending to the octave mech (while the suspect has a G key attached to the upper stack rods and a single armature to the octave mechs). Back to the spats, the ganged posts there are the result of Guenots (the ebay one and Helen's bass sax one) having a separate barrel for each spat key, while the suspect horn has a single rod connecting both keys. Unfortunately, the Guenot tenor has no front F, because that would have helped considerably in puzzling this out.

The problem with a comparison of A (suspect) to B (Guenot) is that they do not seem to be similar era horns, the suspect being around 10 years older or more.....which makes things harder to figure, since a maker could have changed their engineering at some point....

 

[DavidUK]

@JayePDX Thanks for joining, and joining in! For anyone who doesn't venture on to SOTW our new member is an expert on many many makers.

I'd looked at Holton too, as here, with the same off G# trill key: Holton Alto

More here: American Makes & Models / Holton

But Holton is an American brand which didn't seem to fit in with the Paris engraving?

 

[kevgermany]

But Holton is an American brand which didn't seem to fit in with the Paris engraving?

Neither do Jaye's observations about German, but he raised some very good points. And gave us a lot of info we didn't have before.

To me the Paris engraving is key to the ID. Maybe some of the parts came from other makers and it was assembled in Paris, not sure. But I don't think it'd be any of the other like named cities suggested earlier. It's certainly an interesting sax. My money's still on France.

 

[JayeNM]

self-deleted, I went down the wrong path.....

 

[JayeNM]

Just to clarify...I was not suggesting this was a Holton.

The point of the comment was that such a G# trill key was a very old detail, examples of which I have seen on old Holtons, pre-'30's. So that sorta primitive style key existed, once, way back when.

 

[DavidUK]

Adding that unusual key again, if anyone has seen one like this on any other sax, please let me know!

Almost he SAME key here Melissa, and l/h pinky, and it's French!...
French Makes & Models / Thibouville-Lamy / Eb Alto - no sn - Silver Plate - eddbod @ ebay.fr

Another similar Thibouville Lamy here: Thibouville Lamy Alto Saxophone ~ Antique c.1878-1900 | United Kingdom | Gumtree

Similar key AND octave key here Melissa, and it's a Holton (and a red herring?)...
Vintage Holton Rudy Weidoff Model Alto Sax | eBay


These have no relevance but they look fascinating!: French Makes & Models / Sylvester | TheSax.Info Piwigo Photo Gallery
A whole new thread!!??
e.g.

Sorry, got sidetracked!!