Cafe Announcements 📣 Cafesaxophone - internet AI - environmental

[progger]

Just want to say, @Wade Cornell – Your post, and the work you're doing, sound extremely cool and inspiring to me. Sustainable forestry, agriculture, etc, is indeed in the long-term interest of everyone, including people who don't care about sustainability, and I hope that people doing work like you're doing can make a positive impact toward our species' situation at the moment.

 

[Targa]

Just want to say, @Wade Cornell – Your post, and the work you're doing, sound extremely cool and inspiring to me. Sustainable forestry, agriculture, etc, is indeed in the long-term interest of everyone, including people who don't care about sustainability, and I hope that people doing work like you're doing can make a positive impact toward our species' situation at the moment.

It's not them I'm bothered about.
Far too many of them; though some might say 8 billion, is a lot of 'carbon storage', (especially the obese ones), as other living things are now termed.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Flagging up frivolous AI applications needs doing. I've noticed that a mountain of videos appearing in my YT feed are basically AI generated. A text, probably AI generated judging by the poor structure and repetitiveness, is read by an AI voice (with horrendous mispronunciation and misplaced emphases), with generic images in the background.

Basically, the AI generated stuff is just fluff - minimal content padded out, superficially 'glossy', devoid of merit or value.

btw one of the planet's biggest cloud storage "hosts" is Amazon - AWS. I find it mind-boggling that companies willingly throw their data onto a platform they have no control over, they don't know who controls it, they don't know where it is, they don't know who can access it. Given the arbitrary behaviour of some governments at the moment I cannot help but think this is a huge disaster waiting to happen.

 

[skeller047]

btw one of the planet's biggest cloud storage "hosts" is Amazon - AWS. I find it mind-boggling that companies willingly throw their data onto a platform they have no control over, they don't know who controls it, they don't know where it is, they don't know who can access it. Given the arbitrary behaviour of some governments at the moment I cannot help but think this is a huge disaster waiting to happen.

I worked for over 2 decades at a company that uses AWS a lot. I remember when it started being used, and it took about a year, maybe 2, before the vast majority of departments had moved their operations there. I actually think data is safer and more secure in the cloud than in company owned systems. Amazon is less likely to roll over to governmenment demands than Ma And Pa Data Centers, Inc. And at least where I worked we absolutely knew where the data was, it was under employee control and monitored by us 24x7. AWS employees could not access it.

Environmentally speaking, cloud systems are much more energy efficient than company-owned or -leased servers. Capacity can be adjusted almost instantly to meet demand, and sunset just as fast when demand decreases. It makes tremendous sense for mid size and large companies, and even more sense for smaller ones, who can often only afford a small IT crew.

I understand your concerns, I abhor government intervention in most aspects of life too. But I have very little concern about data security in AWS, having worked directly with them for many years. I can’t say your fears are unfounded, but I think in this case they are overblown.

 

[mizmar]

I cannot help but think this is a huge disaster waiting to happen.

Given the drip drip of news stories about data breaches, ransom wear etc. both private criminality and state sponsored - We're pretty much in rolling IT disaster mode.

 

[mizmar]

I'm not anti AI per se - it has some amazingly useful uses for mankind.

So, an AI flexitarian rather than AI Vegan?

Meet the AI vegans | Arwa Mahdawi

They are choosing to abstain from using artificial intelligence for environmental, ethical and personal reasons. Maybe they have a point, writes Guardian columnist Arwa Mahdawi

www.theguardian.com

 

[Targa]

So, an AI flexitarian rather than AI Vegan?

Meet the AI vegans | Arwa Mahdawi

They are choosing to abstain from using artificial intelligence for environmental, ethical and personal reasons. Maybe they have a point, writes Guardian columnist Arwa Mahdawi

www.theguardian.com

Doesn't that imply there must be those who are omnivarian and only use AI.
That would be politicians.

 

[Tuppertn]

So, an AI flexitarian rather than AI Vegan?

Meet the AI vegans | Arwa Mahdawi

They are choosing to abstain from using artificial intelligence for environmental, ethical and personal reasons. Maybe they have a point, writes Guardian columnist Arwa Mahdawi

www.theguardian.com

I like those guys. We should found a commune.

Funny how the article takes the tack that this is like a crazy fringe thing. As if to say, "Yes, this is real. People actually think this way."

 

[mizmar]

That would be politicians.

Well, yes...

‘We didn’t vote for ChatGPT’: Swedish PM under fire for using AI in role

Tech experts criticise Ulf Kristersson as newspaper accuses him of falling for ‘the oligarchs’ AI psychosis’

www.theguardian.com

 

[MikeMorrell]

I worked for over 2 decades at a company that uses AWS a lot. I remember when it started being used, and it took about a year, maybe 2, before the vast majority of departments had moved their operations there. I actually think data is safer and more secure in the cloud than in company owned systems. Amazon is less likely to roll over to governmenment demands than Ma And Pa Data Centers, Inc. And at least where I worked we absolutely knew where the data was, it was under employee control and monitored by us 24x7. AWS employees could not access it.

Environmentally speaking, cloud systems are much more energy efficient than company-owned or -leased servers. Capacity can be adjusted almost instantly to meet demand, and sunset just as fast when demand decreases. It makes tremendous sense for mid size and large companies, and even more sense for smaller ones, who can often only afford a small IT crew.

I understand your concerns, I abhor government intervention in most aspects of life too. But I have very little concern about data security in AWS, having worked directly with them for many years. I can’t say your fears are unfounded, but I think in this case they are overblown.

All valid points @skeller047, with which I 100% agree. And my thanks for pointing these out!

Re-reading my previous response to Pete, I realise that I should have formulated it differently. I've now (explicitly) edited it and given you credit for prompting my edit.

FWIW, I truly support the development and use of AI in many 'use cases'. And I fully accept that 'cloud solutions' are best for very many organisations and individuals for the reasons that you point out. Personally, (for the reasons you point out) I firmly believe that 'cloud processing' (of everything) is the future.

I use various 'cloud storage' solutions to archive and share data/photo's. And I also use applications such as Photoshop and various Photoshop 'add-ons' that include AI capabilities. I have no illusion that these 'AI capabilities' are not derived from - or sourced from 'the cloud/internet'.

T.B.H. I sometimes think that what we're now seeing - w.r.t. AI - is the next 'Wild West scenario' in which all competitors are clambering for positions, competitive advantage, etc. And with many 'providers' of on-line consumer services 'cashing in' on the AI trend.

We've previously seen something similar in areas such as 'search engines', 'forum platforms', 'chip design/branding', etc. My humble guess is that one or two AI platforms will gradually emerge as the 'dominant' platforms with others biting at their heels and /or securing 'niche markets'.

FWIW, I still remember a BBC radio 'technology report' some 20 years ago which predicted that 'in the future' the apps on the then hand-held phones would connect via internet to 'vastly more powerful' back-end computing resources. 😉

Mike

 

[mizmar]

FWIW, I still remember a BBC radio 'technology report' some 20 years ago which predicted that 'in the future' the apps on the then hand-held phones would connect via internet to 'vastly more powerful' back-end computing resources

And it was sloshing around the research community almost a decade before that. It is amazing that it's still news!
Also interesting; ecology and sustainability was hardly ever a factor.

 

[Tenor Viol]

I worked for over 2 decades at a company that uses AWS a lot. I remember when it started being used, and it took about a year, maybe 2, before the vast majority of departments had moved their operations there. I actually think data is safer and more secure in the cloud than in company owned systems. Amazon is less likely to roll over to governmenment demands than Ma And Pa Data Centers, Inc. And at least where I worked we absolutely knew where the data was, it was under employee control and monitored by us 24x7. AWS employees could not access it.

Environmentally speaking, cloud systems are much more energy efficient than company-owned or -leased servers. Capacity can be adjusted almost instantly to meet demand, and sunset just as fast when demand decreases. It makes tremendous sense for mid size and large companies, and even more sense for smaller ones, who can often only afford a small IT crew.

I understand your concerns, I abhor government intervention in most aspects of life too. But I have very little concern about data security in AWS, having worked directly with them for many years. I can’t say your fears are unfounded, but I think in this case they are overblown.

My background was designing IT systems for banking. I have a more sceptical view of third party data security and much prefer the data to be in our own data centres under our own control.... Admittedly being a bank we had budgets that were significantly more substantial than most companies' would be an dwe have much higher regulatory demands for back-up etc.

 

[skeller047]

My background was designing IT systems for banking. I have a more sceptical view of third party data security and much prefer the data to be in our own data centres under our own control.... Admittedly being a bank we had budgets that were significantly more substantial than most companies' would be an dwe have much higher regulatory demands for back-up etc.

For banks and other financial institutions I agree. As I said, the company I worked for kept financial and customer data off the cloud, in servers we owned and controlled.

I probably didn’t make this clear, but with AWS you can set up the account so that you have full control over the servers they provide. That means that OS management, security, monitoring etc. are your responsibility. We used 3rd party security services when needed, and as consultants, but day-to-day security was managed by our employees.

For my company’s purposes (online gaming) the ability to ramp capacity up and down with sometimes less than 24 hours notice (3 hours in one notable case) was critical to the business. Only a cloud-based solution can do this. The lead time for an “emergency” ramp up in our own leased space in a server farm was 2-3 weeks, and at twice the cost of a normal (3-month) planned capacity change. And a ramp down is just as expensive, since we owned the servers and still had to pay for power and space, to say nothing of internet services, even after turning the unneeded systems off.

Any company which is involved in “internet business” in any way will face these same challenges.

 

[Tenor Viol]

For banks and other financial institutions I agree. As I said, the company I worked for kept financial and customer data off the cloud, in servers we owned and controlled.

I probably didn’t make this clear, but with AWS you can set up the account so that you have full control over the servers they provide. That means that OS management, security, monitoring etc. are your responsibility. We used 3rd party security services when needed, and as consultants, but day-to-day security was managed by our employees.

For my company’s purposes (online gaming) the ability to ramp capacity up and down with sometimes less than 24 hours notice (3 hours in one notable case) was critical to the business. Only a cloud-based solution can do this. The lead time for an “emergency” ramp up in our own leased space in a server farm was 2-3 weeks, and at twice the cost of a normal (3-month) planned capacity change. And a ramp down is just as expensive, since we owned the servers and still had to pay for power and space, to say nothing of internet services, even after turning the unneeded systems off.

Any company which is involved in “internet business” in any way will face these same challenges.

Ah, the joys of capacity planning....

 

[Ghr9204]

Ah, the joys of capacity planning....

For a time in the 1980's, I worked at the now long departed Naval Shipyard in Long Beach, CA, (victim of the Base Realignment Act and Closure - BRAC of 1995) in Code 249, Computer Applications Branch of the Planning Department (engineering). My boss tasked me with writing the justification paperwork and approval coordination to purchase office automation for the supervisors, engineers and engineering techs.(Then it was MS-DOS and IBM PC-AT clones.)

We received zero support from the IT department. Our budgets worked differently and to them we were an unnecessary bother. In the multipart paragraphed request was:

DESCRIBE CURRENT AUTOMATION: I described our office automation as telephones, Xerox copier, pens and pencils, notepads, hand calculators, 3 ring binders, file folders and cabinets, wall calendars, wastepaper bins, and etc.

For initiating approval, I went to the IT Department two floors down and punched the nicotine riddled "specialist" in the Winstons with my paperwork. He sat down at his desk, started flipping through the paperwork. When he read the paragraph on our current situation, he turned beet red in the face and blew up.

Dilbert fashion I quietly excused myself, told him to let me know of comments or signature approval of his supervisor. It got approved.

This reminded me of your comment, "the joys of capacity planning."