Miscellaneous Cafe & TTS web design (moved)

[MikeMorrell]

There is no specific goal as in the amount of revenue is needed. Cafe does ok in long tail searches (searches that are less generic) TTS seems to do OK for more generic searches such as how to start out on saxophone.

I suppose though the goal right now is to survive the changing face of the internet with competition from social media, AI information, not to mention the dumbing down of information by the desire to get it from a buffoon of an influencer on YouTube (did I just say that?) as opposed to reading words and putting them into practise.

Thanks, Pete. This makes it much clearer. I agree that TTS does pretty good on generic searches ('Learning Saxophone', Saxophone tips', 'Saxophone leaks', Saxophone repairs', .... In all cases, TTS appeared in my top 5-15 search results. On Chrome, Edge and Firefox. The results on Chrome are skewed towards my search history. But I hardly ever use Edge and Firefox and have no search history with these browsers.

This doesn't surprise me. TTS has very rich, well-structured and focused content, plenty of relevant keywords in the natural text and the content is stable. Above all, my guess is that TTS gets plenty of visitor 'hits'.

In contrast, the content of the cafe (or any forum) is - by its nature - dynamic, relatively unstructured and any 'keywords' in post titles may not match (for example Chrome's) user's generic search criteria. So I can understand that (current) search engine 'WebCrawler's' are less able to score the value of the cafe's (dynamic) 'content'. TBH, I'm not sure whether limiting OT posts/responses might change this fundamental 'challenge' significantly.

I'm now 70 and my days of 'digital communication advice' are long over. But back in the day, we used to talk about 'repository content' (a website, for example TTS) and 'ephemeral content' (e.g. social media posts) which often referred back to the 'repository' (website). IHMO, the relationship between the cafe and TTS are reversed, TTS has good SEO and is IMHO perhaps the main digital 'referrer' to the cafe. Though word of mouth counts for a lot too!

Social media (Facebook, Instagram and especially YouTube) are absolutely stuffed with 'teasers' claiming to help sax players play better, at all levels. A few YouTube video series (including those by Dave Liebman and Harvey Pittel) seem to have no (commercial) interest other than the willingness to freely share their knowledge and experience. The cafe has definitely helped me distinguish between 'the wheat and the chaff'.

But in general, my gut feeling is that it makes little sense (either for TTS or for the cafe) to try and compete for attention in an already oversaturated social media 'market'. I fully agree that there are many 'buffoon influencers' on YouTube. Yes they get many 'hits' but IMHO it's also worth considering the audience to which these video's appeal to. My guess is that the 'teasers' appeal to (beginning) sax players who are attracted to the idea of a 'quick and easy fix' rather than going through a longer learning process. I may well be wrong.

So, to summarise, TTS has IMHO great SEO. If it was me, then I'd divert any SEO improvements towards TTS.
Then I'd edit the TTS header and home page to give much more prominence to the cafe (visibility,value, benefits, ease of click). Rather the trying to improve the SEO of the cafe directly.

Just a thought

Mike

 

[Pete Thomas]

So, to summarise, TTS has IMHO great SEO. If it was me, then I'd divert any SEO improvements towards TTS.

This is exactly what I have done, the only SEO I can do with Cafe has been to noindex the parts that are not going be in searches, eg the breakfast room, Doorbell, and the odd thread that is not good.

This is based on a newer SEO concept of “crawl budget” ie Google had limited crawl time per site so you let it see the best.

Then I'd edit the TTS header and home page to give much more prominence to the cafe (visibility,value, benefits, ease of click). Rather the trying to improve the SEO of the cafe directly.

I thought the Cafe is quite prominent there already, but admittedly not on mobile so that can be an issue.

 

[MikeMorrell]

This is exactly what I have done, the only SEO I can do with Cafe has been to noindex the parts that are not going be in searches, eg the breakfast room, Doorbell, and the odd thread that is not good.

This is based on a newer SEO concept of “crawl budget” ie Google had limited crawl time per site so you let it see the best.

I thought the Cafe is quite prominent there already, but admittedly not on mobile so that can be an issue.

Hi Pete, the TTS website looks as if it's had a recent major 'visual upgrade' and it looks a lot 'cleaner' and 'fresher' than when I last visited it a few days ago^*! And the cafe does indeed have more prominence in the new design.

I'm an old guy who has - at best - dabbled as a completely amateur website designer/builder for my amateur Big Bands (in Wordpress). So I would never dispute the current (presumably professionally designed) TTS website design. I just note that, as an old guy, the 'scrolling order' still (psychologically) implies to me the order in which topics are
'most important' (at the top) to 'least important' (at the bottom). There's no logical reason for this, it's just how I react. On other websites/blogs, I usually quickly scan the TOC and click on a topic/blog that I'm interested in. Occasionally, if I think that other content might be interesting too, I might quickly browse other pages/blogs.

For the current TTS website, I would like to make a few (constructive!) and non-urgent suggestions:
Order

The current order is:
Discover the saxophone​

Tame your saxophone​

Visit our online shop
Pete Thomas
The Café!
Fundraising
Some Customer Reviews​

IHMO, 'the cafe' could perhaps be bumped up above 'Visit our online shop' TBH, I (as an amateur player didn't recognise any of the (few) TTS 'customers' who gave reviews. Personally, I would prefer a short intro to TTS stating something like (TTS and it's forum, Cafe Saxophone.com (with link) are both run as a not-for profit organisation by renowned sax player Pete Thomas (with link).

Terminology
There are (for me) just one slightly confusing elements in the TTS website:
Under the heading Discover the saxophone, I read "“Everything you need to know in order to tame your saxophone.” Taming you saxophone" is the header of the next menu-option.

I completely understand that 'Taming the Saxophone' is a long-established brand name for TTS. TBH, I'm not sure whether this brand name is still the best one for the menu items and website sections. You could perhaps consider alternative 'headings' such as 'All About the Sax'. 'Learning to play Sax' and 'Improving your Sax playing''

Visuals (TTS and cafe)
Once more, I'm at best an old and very amateur website designer/builder. But every couple of years, I still browse through the 'upcoming trends 'in website design. Of course, all websites/blogs that claim to predict the 'upcoming trends' conflict with each other! The TTS and Cafe colors are predominantly shades of brown. Very recognisable and 'trusted'. My only question is whether and when it might be worthwhile changing to a more 'modern' colour palette.

I fully subscribe to the idea that 'a picture paints a thousand words'. The TTS website does this amazingly well with the exception (IMHO) of the cafe. For me, the brown logo doesn't fully communicate the 'dynamic vibrancy' of the cafe. I leave it the professionals to improve the profiling of the cafe but 2 ideas are:
-(preferably) a time-lapse video illustrating how new posts and responses arrive
- otherwise, just a screenshot of a post with initial responses

I realise that in both cases, you would need to get prior permission from members in order to publish their posts and responses.

A last thought
Whether or not members share (for them) relevant posts on the cafe on social media or via e-mail is entirely up to them. I sometimes do when I think that posts or links would benefit other sax player that I know. It might be worth 'encouraging' members to spread the word about the value they've derived from the cafe.

As always, my suggestions are intended to be constructive (for consideration) and not in any way critical. I'm still amazed that you - as a professional sax player - have become such an IT-expert!

Mike

 

[Pete Thomas]

the current (presumably professionally designed) TTS website design.

That’s very kind, it is actually all my design. Though the logo saxophone is based on a customised stock vector image.

I (as an amateur player didn't recognise any of the (few) TTS 'customers' who gave reviews. Personally, I would prefer a short intro to TTS stating something like (TTS and it's forum, Cafe Saxophone.com (with link) are both run as a not-for profit organisation by renowned sax player Pete Thomas (with link).

Sounds like a good idea, and I agree with your other points will very much consider them next time I do an overhaul. It’s great to have outside opinions.

 

[Pete Thomas]

cafe. For me, the brown logo doesn't fully communicate the 'dynamic vibrancy' of the cafe.

Testing orange now. It has to be said though, most coffee is brown hence the shades of brown on the Café

a time-lapse video illustrating how new posts and responses arrive
- otherwise, just a screenshot of a post with initial responses

I don’t quite understand how that would work

I realise that in both cases, you would need to get prior permission from members in order to publish their posts and responses.

No permission would be required. I think.