Saxophones Before Internet/After Internet: Equipment changes

[Grumps]

Some may know that I'm pretty much set for which horns I play and how they're set up. I'm often the one urging restraint with haphazard changes, but was this always the case? I'm sure many folks here have always had an internet. Those of us who are older though, didn't. And yeah, when I did get online almost thirty years ago and found out what was out there, I went through an equipment overhaul over the successive years.

Here were my go-to horns priorthereto:

Soprano: Mark VI, stock mouthpiece, #3 Rico Royal Reeds
Alto: SBA, Level Air 7, #3 Rico Royal Reeds
Tenor: Mark VII, Level Air 5, #3 Rico Royal Reeds
Bari: Conn New Wonder, King EquaTru, #3 Rico Royal Reeds (not in playing shape)

My current go-to horns:

Soprano: Conn New Wonder, Super Session J, #3 Vandoren Java Green Reeds
Alto: Buescher True Tone, RPC rollover .09, #3 Vandoren Java Green Reeds
Tenor: Silversonic, RPC High Baffle .134, #3 Vandoren Java Green Reeds
Bari: Conn New Wonder, RPC rollover .120, #3 Rico Royal (old stock) (in playing shape!)

I haven't changed setups for my current horns in years now, but I do have to give credit for my initial internet trials of horns and mouthpieces in helping me find what I truly preferred. Anyone else go through a drastic overhaul of what you play once you got online?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Anyone else go through a drastic overhaul of what you play once you got online?

No I’d it before. Switched drastically from a MKVI to Conn 10M

 

[turf3]

The internet did not motivate in any meaningful way WHAT I've chosen, but it did open up a lot more available choices.

So, for example, I've always played Conn tenors. The one before this one, I bought at a local music store (approx. 1982) but it was never quite right - bad low D warble among other issues. When I decided to replace it, the internet existed, and I was able to find that Wichita Band Instrument had a big selection of various tenors, so I cashed in some airline miles and went there and tested a bunch of horns. Pre-internet I might not even have known that store existed, and would have been stuck with what was in stock on a given day in the few local stores.

Second example is my bass sax. Now THOSE just aren't in stock in local stores. A given store might come across one every five or ten years. I had feelers out at a couple stores, but again the internet sent me to PM Woodwind in Chicago (more airline miles cashed in), and also a Craigslist listing from 100 miles away from me. In the olden days, I would have had to wait till one showed up in the classifieds or in the local shop - it might have been months or years.

 

[Grumps]

No I’d it before. Switched drastically from a MKVI to Conn 10M

How did you come across it? The 10M. What made you want to play it? I had one for some time between the VII and the King.

 

[turf3]

Some may know that I'm pretty much set for which horns I play and how they're set up. I'm often the one urging restraint with haphazard changes, but was this always the case? I'm sure many folks here have always had an internet. Those of us who are older though, didn't. And yeah, when I did get online almost thirty years ago and found out what was out there, I went through an equipment overhaul over the successive years.

Here were my go-to horns priorthereto:

Soprano: Mark VI, stock mouthpiece, #3 Rico Royal Reeds
Alto: SBA, Level Air 7, #3 Rico Royal Reeds
Tenor: Mark VII, Level Air 5, #3 Rico Royal Reeds
Bari: Conn New Wonder, King EquaTru, #3 Rico Royal Reeds (not in playing shape)

My current go-to horns:

Soprano: Conn New Wonder, Super Session J, #3 Vandoren Java Green Reeds
Alto: Buescher True Tone, RPC rollover .09, #3 Vandoren Java Green Reeds
Tenor: Silversonic, RPC High Baffle .134, #3 Vandoren Java Green Reeds
Bari: Conn New Wonder, RPC rollover .120, #3 Rico Royal (old stock) (in playing shape!)

I haven't changed setups for my current horns in years now, but I do have to give credit for my initial internet trials of horns and mouthpieces in helping me find what I truly preferred. Anyone else go through a drastic overhaul of what you play once you got online?

When I look at this list, I interpret two things:

1) the "before" choices to me speak of limited selection and limited data. Everyone knew "Selmer is best", so you want the best, you get Selmer. Level Air and Selmer stock mouthpieces were in stock at all the local music stores. And that baritone I bet you got the same way I got mine - go into a few stores in your town, "I need a baritone sax" and the one that was in stock in the city, that's the one you bought.

2) The "after" choices speak of increased data, for one thing - you start reading people's reports of "well, my Selmer is a great horn, but I really prefer this Conn/King/Buescher/whatever, and the old scuttlebutt that those old Conns/Kings/Bueschers are lousy, simply isn't true" - and that'll open your mind to considering whether YOU might ought to try some of those other brands.

3) And the "after" mouthpieces are all new designs, new companies, that thrived on the internet to create the word of mouth that you'd have had to spend BIG bux for, pre-internet. In our youths, sax mouthpieces were advertised in the back of Down Beat - just a little quarter page ad, with basically no information. You could ask around for YEARS and never run across someone who'd actually TRIED an RIA, or a Lawton. (Yeah, yeah, I know someone here's going to chime in with remembrances of that street in NYC or LA with all the music stores that carried huge stock, but the whole rest of the country, we had two or three music stores, and they carried three or four brands of mouthpiece (and almost nothing for baritone).

I'm just making up stories about your life here, so feel free to tell me I'm full of it, but I was an adult long before the internet, just like you, and what I've described is how MY equipment choices went when there wasn't an internet.

 

[Jimmymack]

I changed horns after the internet came about partly because I became aware of other options and other retailers. I’d already traded my Yamaha 62 for a Keilwerth but then thought if I want an American horn sound then maybe I should look first an American horn. I set off across country as I able to locate some shops with them in stock. I went looking for a Conn 10M and came home with a Super20, that I’ve had for over 20 years now and play to this day. I’m still interested in new horns, even ligs, but I don’t plan on buying them.

Mouthpieces are a different story. It was SOTW that introduced me to the various options and sent me on a search for an MPC. After a few not so good transactions I found the one that I still play and it has set the bar for any possible replacement and that’s a high bar. I have a drawer with a bunch of rarely played mouthpieces in, including Lawtons that served their time, but mostly they were bought locally. I long ago gave up on eBay which limits my mouthpiece search to what’s available locally and, while I still look, I don’t have the interest in buying on a whim and selling on.

So I’ve found the internet a mixed blessing as it broadened my horizons and knowledge regarding horns and mouthpieces and now I can find reeds and stuff that were previously unknown or unavailable and that is pretty much the limit of my acquisitiveness.

 

[davidk]

Before internet was when I was still at school and had my sax bought for me. My teacher owned a music shop and my mum followed his recommendation - one of the first Trevor James The Horn altos. A Vandoren A35 was included in the package.

Post internet was my first tenor bought by myself after meticulously reading the Saxophone Buyer's Guide: Saxophone Buyer's Guide | Saxophone.org

It was a Keilwerth SX90R in the 75th anniversary black and silver finish, with an HR Link 6*. At the current point of the merry go round I have a Mark VI tenor and Brilhart Ebolin mouthpiece. I have an HR Link 6* on backorder

 

[kamak]

I started my sax journey only a little over 2 years ago at this point, so definitely in the internet days.

I do like to read about saxes and equipment, but want to base my opinions on what I like and enjoy. That's how I landed on my strong like of Martin horns. Without the internet I probably wouldn't have known about them I imagine. Other vintage and non-vintage horns are awesome too, but after playing one, I was hooked. Everything else was 2nd best to me, and I've tried quite alot of them out.

But I remember getting dialup as a kid in the 90's and throwing those AOL discs into the computer and dialing in. Best noise ever. Kids today dont know what they missed 😂

 

[Saxlicker]

No real influence over me except it made sax things more accessible in general.
For example, I wanted a YBS 62 and in the early days I was suddenly able to ship a Bari via eBay from the states that arrived in 3 days.
Not only that it was a bargain. I didn't do it to flip it, but when I finally decided I had no use for it some years later I mad a clear £2k.
Of course as the internet became established, so did eBay and customs, and the Royal Mail got to grips all the international shipping. A lot of that accessibility became far less appealing. Prices went upwards hideously as did the risk of receiving something in the condition you hoped for.
The risks remain and you need to be careful but I'm still not influenced to change due to YouTube vids etc.
Some gear reviews are well intended others are clearly out there to bias products.
You have to have a handle on your direction then use these things as a secondary nudge from what you see.
I am likely to buy a new clip on mic and I narrowed it down before watching reviews. At the end of the day I've been fed information from all sorts of sources on line and walked away to think about cost, function and quality.
In fairness I find myself in agreement with a very popular choice by tubers.

 

[lig]

Pre and post internet?

I was able to find way more interesting horns at really great prices pre-internet.

My job had me traveling all over the West Coast. In the days before the internet I would always carve out time to visit music stores / repair shops / pawn shops and get some cool horns.

Selmer Padless tenor, gold plated Chu Portrait tenor, Conn and stencil curvies, a few lovely VIs, a BA alto in lacquer, a killer SBA alto and more.

Post internet made finding a specific instrument easier but the bargains were harder to come by.

As to setups - it wildly enabled my tenor mouthpiece GAS. Alto not to the same extent.

 

[kamak]

No real influence over me except it made sax things more accessible in general.
For example, I wanted a YBS 62 and in the early days I was suddenly able to ship a Bari via eBay from the states that arrived in 3 days.
Not only that it was a bargain. I didn't do it to flip it, but when I finally decided I had no use for it some years later I mad a clear £2k.
Of course as the internet became established, so did eBay and customs, and the Royal Mail got to grips all the international shipping. A lot of that accessibility became far less appealing. Prices went upwards hideously as did the risk of receiving something in the condition you hoped for.
The risks remain and you need to be careful but I'm still not influenced to change due to YouTube vids etc.
Some gear reviews are well intended others are clearly out there to bias products.
You have to have a handle on your direction then use these things as a secondary nudge from what you see.
I am likely to buy a new clip on mic and I narrowed it down before watching reviews. At the end of the day I've been fed information from all sorts of sources on line and walked away to think about cost, function and quality.
In fairness I find myself in agreement with a very popular choice by tubers.

That's a great point; the internet has been instrumental (ha!) in making things 'known' and therefore driving prices up.

I had a pristine 89 E30 BMW that was my first car and I took excellent care of. Sold it about 10 years ago for decent money, now they are triple that, its insane. And the trash ones go for what I sold mine for!

 

[lig]

That's a great point; the internet has been instrumental (ha!) in making things 'known' and therefore driving prices up.

I had a pristine 89 E30 BMW that was my first car and I took excellent care of. Sold it about 10 years ago for decent money, now they are triple that, its insane. And the trash ones go for what I sold mine for!

If I had a big garage - an E30 M3 would be in it. Preferable with an S54 engine. 🙂

 

[kamak]

If I had a big garage - an E30 M3 would be in it. Preferable with an S54 engine. 🙂

And get rid of the S14? 😱

I know its 'purist' of me, but the S14 is at home in the E30M3. I do love the S54 however, great engine.

 

[lig]

And get rid of the S14? 😱

I know its 'purist' of me, but the S14 is at home in the E30M3. I do love the S54 however, great engine.

Blasphemy to many, I'm sure. It's a cool unit - high revving and lightweight but I have an S2000 for that.

To me - a BMW should be a silky inline 6. Put that in a badass flared fender, 2800lb E30 M3? One of my dream builds.

 

[skeller047]

The internet increased my ability to BUY other horns, and many more mouthpieces. Because I switched careers from full time musician to software developer. But I don’t think it changed my approach, I just have more stuff now 🙂

 

[kamak]

Blasphemy to many, I'm sure. It's a cool unit - high revving and lightweight but I have an S2000 for that.

To me - a BMW should be a silky inline 6. Put that in a badass flared fender, 2800lb E30 M3? One of my dream builds.

Can't argue with that sound logic. Nothing is better than an inline 6.

 

[mark_addy]

Can't argue with that sound logic. Nothing is better than an inline 6.

Ooof. A friend had a Triumph Vitesse. A small car, but its appetite for fuel was...prodigious!

Back to OP - pre-internet, I used to read the 'Loot' (UK free-ads paper) twice a week, religously. I had to move around different newsagents because I had no money and so tried to look up instruments, and motorbikes, for free in the shop - which they, understandably, got fed up with.

I liked old, cheap, weird stuff. Like others have mentioned, you could be lucky, but you had to be very, very patient. And when a cheap bike came along (spares for mine - DDR 2-strokes - were becoming harder to find) I tended to buy it. I ended up with about 7 MZ 250s, mostly in bits. I was lucky to buy a True Tone alto in similar circumstances, I only bought it because it was £200 and most instruments were £300 here, in about 1991. That means £600+ in today's money for pretty much any second-hand alto. China has certainly brought prices right down.

My recent 'Lewin' alto was bought via the internet. Finding one, cheap, to go down memory lane with and remember my Dad's alto on which I learnt, would have been quite unlikely in pre-internet times. In 1991 money I paid about £70 for it; back then, given it almost worked and looked pretty reasonable, I think it might have cost rather more.

 

[Pete Thomas]

How did you come across it? The 10M. What made you want to play it? I had one for some time between the VII and the King.

I think I found it via the weekly small add publication. Exchange and Mart. Following the 80s revival of 30s/40s swing and jump jive there was a kind of interest in the vintage horns. We also had a repairer in London at the time,Willie Garnet, who often sourced interesting horns.

I have a well used anecdote online about how I started an album (Richard Thompson - Hand of Kindness) on the MKVI and switched over half way through. Nobody noticed.

 

[dexdex]

Cool discussion.
I can say that my first big internet driven decision horn-wise was to find a substitute neck for my MkVII tenor, a widespread wisdom out there. I could test drive half a dozen of Reference necks at a local shop, and settled on a 54.
My progressive switch from cane to synthetic reeds was also an internet backed process. Wouldn't have discovered Fiberreed through brick&mortar shops.

The latest internet craze, exactly one year ago, was to order a used Yamaha soprano from an online shop in Japan. Everyone told me I'd never do that, and I didn't listen.
Knowing how Japan values trust and reputation, I assumed it was a bearable risk.
High-end Yamaha horns are very rare on the used market here (I live half way between Selmer Paris and Rampone & Cazzani), AND the yen exchange rate was and still is very favourable. Voilà.
Uberhappy with the horn, and would recommend that shop anytime.

 

[Grumps]

I think I found it via the weekly small add publication. Exchange and Mart. Following the 80s revival of 30s/40s swing and jump jive there was a kind of interest in the vintage horns. We also had a repairer in London at the time,Willie Garnet, who often sourced interesting horns.

I have a well used anecdote online about how I started an album (Richard Thompson - Hand of Kindness) on the MKVI and switched over half way through. Nobody noticed.

It was at one of those old Maryland SOTW get-togethers that I got to play a vintage Conn tenor that gave me the itch for a 10M. At the time I was actually in the market for a VI tenor; as I favored every single one I tried over the VII I had back then. But after trying that Conn, I convinced myself that the G# key was too close to the G key on VI tenors for me and I much preferred the spread of the 10M keys and soon purchased my "Museum Quality" 10M from a known dealer.

I had that 10M for some time and only sold my VII when I picked up a SIlversonic tenor as a second tenor. From what I could tell, my sound never changed either; whether on the VII, the 10M or the Super 20. Over time I just preferred the King and sold the 10M in favor of my son's old Martin stencil I could now use as a backup. The 10M wasn't getting any time and it was too valued to keep on a shelf. Think it went for just about what I paid for it. Maybe a bit more.