Playing the saxophone Baritone reed on a tenor mouthpiece

[jazzsurfer]

In an act of curiosity I tried playing a Plasticover 3 baritone reed on my PPT 9* tenor mouthpiece - and it worked a treat. In fact I would say that it worked better than the Plasticover 2.5 tenor reed. It appears louder and the altissimo and low notes seem easier.

Anyone else have an experience of using baritone reeds on a tenor mouthpiece ?.

 

[thomsax]

I'm also using baritone reeds on my tneor mouthpiece. I use Plasticovers #4 or #5. Right now #5 because I'm blowing sax every day, at least for an hour. My mouthpiece is a Rovner metal Deep-V D40 #8 (.110 with baffle and a very large window). I'm probably going to buy another Rovner, #9 (.120). Bass clarinet reeds is also working for me but I prefer baritione reeds.

I like the plasticovers baritone reeds because:
-last longer than tenor reeds and ordinary "cane reeds".
-more wood. Good for me because I'm a "biter"/aggressive playing style!
-outsstanding low tones. Easy to play "barilines" on the tenor with Rovner, Plasticover bari reeds and a Martin tenor.
-loud and raw sound = Rocksax!
- I just have to buy baritone reeds. I'm using Plasticover #4 on baritone as well. Works fine on Dukoff D9.

I don't like Plasticovers baritone reeds because:
-hard for me to control in the upper register. The altissimo tones are a hazzard!. I can play F# (3) ok but hardly G#(3) and B(4) (the only three altissimo tones I know/play!). These tones were better with tenor reeds.
-quite expensive.
-they don't import Plasticcovers bari reeds to Sweden. I've to buy them in USA or UK. USA is cheaper!
- They don't taste good the first time. Nachoman is right!

What I've read and heard (samples) the PPT mpc seems to be a very good mouthpiece!

Thomas

 

[jazzsurfer]

Hi Thomas - Thanks for the response. I think that I will stick with the bari plasticovers for a while and see what happens.

Yes, the PPT 9* is a great mouthpiece once you get used to it. I have been working really hard on overtones & altissimo notes and (slowly) I am getting there. I use mainly the suggested fingerings that Pete advises on this site and (for me) they all work - some with more certainty. I can hit tenor 'G' every time (which is supposed to be a harder note) but 'A' is still a bit uncertain. I am trying different fingerings for notes that are bit iffy. Below is a great link to a video of someone who has got this stuff sorted. He also gives (at the end) some of his fingerings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe_KwKVDgoE&feature=related

 

[Pete Thomas]

A great player who uses baritone reeds on tenor mouthpiece is Plas Johnson. It can work very well, especially wider tips.

 

[thomsax]

I didn't know Plas Johnson uses bari reeds. Lenny Pickett, use bass clarinet reeds on tenor. He is playing a Berg Larsen metal 130/0 SMS. If I rember right, I think I've read that Noble "Thin Man" Watts used baritine reeds on tenor and Earl Bostic played tenor reeds on alto.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I didn't know Plas Johnson uses bari reeds.

Yes, I've heard he uses very soft (1 or 1.5) Plasticover with a very wide tip - 150 or 160.

 

[taiwanpaul]

Have also tried baritone reeds on my tenor and like the sound. However, the lig is a little tight! I use a standard size tenor mpc and have a Francois Loius lig. Do you have any advice as to a lig that would fit better with a baritone reed??
Have also been experimenting with an alto reed on my soprano and get a much fuller sound. Same problem again with the lig! Use a standard size mpc with a Rovner Mk3 lig. Anybody got an idea for a better fitting lig?
Thanks for any suggestions in advance.
Paul.

 

[thomsax]

Have also tried baritone reeds on my tenor and like the sound. However, the lig is a little tight! I use a standard size tenor mpc and have a Francois Loius lig. Do you have any advice as to a lig that would fit better with a baritone reed??
Have also been experimenting with an alto reed on my soprano and get a much fuller sound. Same problem again with the lig! Use a standard size mpc with a Rovner Mk3 lig. Anybody got an idea for a better fitting lig?
Thanks for any suggestions in advance.
Paul.

You can turn the Rovner ligature so the screw is on the bottomside of the mouthpiece. Rovners lig can be used both ways. One advantage with having the lig like that is that the stock of the reed is not covered with the canvas/fabric. The reed can vibrate better this way. The pressure on the reed is on the sides. I think this is a better way to hold the reed. Worth a try.

Click on the link below to see what I mean. I have a Rovner 1 AL alto lig on a Martin alto mpc (I consider Martins HR std sized) with a tenor reed. The pressure is just on the side of reed.
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view&current=martinmpctenorreed.jpg

Thomas

 

[John Laughter]

taiwanpaul, if you will send an email to Phil Rovner and tell him what m/p you are using he will let you know which size/model Rovner lig to get to use for a bari reed on tenor. He sent one to me that worked well on my tenor w/ a bari reed and on my alto w/ a tenor reed. However, I have returned to Winslow ligs on both horns.

Some of the blues sax players used this setup back in the 50's. The wider tip area gives a of flexibility to bend a note, gliss's and a big subtone.

I would not suggest this set up for classical music at all or any style which requires a focused tone.

As thomsax stated, the upper register can be tricky but with a lot of stage time and practice it will happen. I believe the idea is to use a strength that is hard enough to support the upper register.

 

[taiwanpaul]

Hi John,
Many thanks for your advice. I use a Rovner on soprano and have looked at the Rovner ligs for tenor, but was a little overwhelmed by all the sizes and which one would be correct. Will follow your advice. Cheers, Paul.

 

[John Laughter]

Welcome Paul. Mr. Rovner is very helpful and will put you in the right direction. His basic ligs will be easy to adjust. I had a little problem getting the right size when I used the models with the tone plates but he worked with me until we got it right.

Say hi to him when you send an email. John

 

[thomsax]

I've a ligature with Mass Load TM technology. I like it!! The new Rovner Platinum ligature looks great. I guess the metal is not that flexible as fabric?

John - Thank you for leading me into Rovner and plasticcovers baritone reeds. Fits me perfect. Rock 'n' Roll setup!

Thomas

 

[John Laughter]

Welcome Thomas!

 

[John Laughter]

Abraham Samuel “Boomie” Richman was born April 2, 1922 in Brockton, Massachusetts. He is a jazz tenor sax player with the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra at the height of the Big Band era. Mr. Richman played a Selmer Tenor Mark VI saxophone. He used a baritone reed with a wide flare & his tone was described on more than one occasion as “A very expensive sound.” He performed with Mugsy Spanier, Les Elkgart, Tommy Dorsey and Benny Goodman.

Recorded with Buddy Holly on October 21, 1958. He performed the beautiful sax solo on “True Love Ways.”

Mr. Richman retired from the Benny Goodman band in 1956. He then became the ‘first-call’ studio ace in New York City where he recorded a plethora of material with the sax for television & radio commercials too numerous to name. Mr. Richman retired from studio work in 1972. His last recording was for the movie: ‘The Godfather.’

True Love Ways - Wikipedia

 

[Nick Wyver]

“A very expensive sound.”

Well, it would be, considering the price of baritone reeds.

 

[thomsax]

A thread from 2009! Nowdays I play Rovner #9 or #10 (depending on "how I feel today") tenor mouthpieces. I have been doing some work over the years to try to figure out the best way for to use baritone reeds on tenor mouthpieces. We talked about Plas Johnson (RIP) for some weeks ago ..... . I'm not playing Plasticovers anymore. I play unfiled baritone reeds like LaVoz or Vandoren V16. I can work on bare cane!! I can work on bare cane which was not the case on plasticovers without damaging the plastic coat.

A baritone reed om my tenor mouthpieces gives me the same as it did in 2009. I have discovered I play a little bit more relaxed today than I did in 2009. My sound is "fuller/fatter" today.

To get along with baritone reeds on a tenor mouthpiece the shape of the mouthpiece is important. It must be able to carry a baritone reed in a good way. The lig is also important.

The shape of a Rovner mouthpiece is fine. A baritone reed is fitting rather well without too much adjusting. But I narrow down the sides of the reeds so it's in-line the rails/sides of the mouthpiece. I use wetstones for this. A few drops of water on the wetstone is less brutal for the reeds. I use a tenor reed as a pattern and then I do some marks on the baritone reed. But in the end it's comfort and tone that decide. If it's not feeling well then it's probably not sounding well.

A ligature that leaves most of the stock open and clamps on the side of the reeds works best for me . I use a Rovner Ed Daniels II ligature.