Alternate C#

[Pete Effamy]

Open C# is at a disadvantage acoustically because it is the shortest tube in the 1st register before all the fingers are put back down with the octave key to play notes in their "2nd mode". There is not much of an air column "resonance" to help it out. To illustrate that the tone and pitch can get worse as the tube gets shorter, try playing palm D without the octave key. C# is its next door neighbor.

Yes, but it’s not as acoustically bad as clarinet throat Bb, where as a college student you’re told to learn to play it better. Yes you’re right of course, I’m just saying that it seems like we’re erring towards saying that the note doesn’t work and whilst I concede that some instruments might have a problem, and that it can be made better with additional fingers, most don’t have a problem with it.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I used the palm D. I just found that the horn rocked back and forth so I held my right fingers down to steady it, lest it go flying into the second alto's lap.

To steady the sax. push both thumbs away from you. This plus the sling should be good to hold the sax still when playing notes with few fingers. It also helps with "stage antics".

 

[6441]

I wish to state in all my lack of experience that regarding fingerings,
It's all good™
Several people have stated that on their instrument, the open C# isn't what the other notes around it are. It sounds thin and flat on both my Yams, but maybe of the hundreds of other horns out there, some of them have solved this problem. In looking at altissimo fingerings, I have found that what works for some simply doesn't work at all for me. I would assume that the alt C# mentioned work in varying degrees for different people/instruments. For me, Octave+R123 works great when I need a clear C# and for trills and tremolos, which in the blues are unavoidable.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I wish to state in all my lack of experience that regarding fingerings,
It's all good™
Several people have stated that on their instrument, the open C# isn't what the other notes around it are. It sounds thin and flat on both my Yams, but maybe of the hundreds of other horns out there, some of them have solved this problem. In looking at altissimo fingerings, I have found that what works for some simply doesn't work at all for me. I would assume that the alt C# mentioned work in varying degrees for different people/instruments. For me, Octave+R123 works great when I need a clear C# and for trills and tremolos, which in the blues are unavoidable.

Whatever you’re doing must be fine as C#s haven’t pricked my ears on your recordings.

 

[6441]

Whatever you’re doing must be fine as C#s haven’t pricked my ears on your recordings.

The other well-worn technique is to avoid playing (concert) E entirely! Seriously, the biggest trouble is around the break, otherwise your embouchure usually corrects the pitch. In fact this is why the alternate is attractive to me. I was tending to always bend that open E up.

 

[Pete Effamy]

The other well-worn technique is to avoid playing (concert) E entirely! Seriously, the biggest trouble is around the break, otherwise your embouchure usually corrects the pitch. In fact this is why the alternate is attractive to me. I was tending to always bend that open E up.

I hate it when you talk in concert.

 

[6441]

I hate it when you talk in concert.

The ladies always went berserk though!

 

[GCinCT]

I never realized there were so many players who have an issue with the quality of the C# using the standard fingering. On my horn, it is a little flat, which is common on most saxophones, but I've learned to adjust it. The timbre sounds find to me. Maybe I should listen more carefully.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I never realized there were so many players who have an issue with the quality of the C# using the standard fingering. On my horn, it is a little flat, which is common on most saxophones, but I've learned to adjust it. The timbre sounds find to me. Maybe I should listen more carefully.

I’ve always been good with mine too.

 

[Admitone]

My Selmer SA80II C# is noticeably worse than my Mark VI or Yamaha 62. The 62 is the best of the bunch.

 

[ESJohn]

It might help to know that it was my woodwinds instructor that showed the fingering to me. He does have a family connection to the old H N White Company so maybe it is possible that he was referring to horns made by them, but I don't think that is the case. Mine is a King Cleveland 613. He did mention the ease of moving from D to C# using that method and he prefers the darker sound that results (at least on my sax) by using it. I practiced it some yesterday in case I ever run into that scenario.

 

[GCinCT]

It might help to know that it was my woodwinds instructor that showed the fingering to me. He does have a family connection to the old H N White Company so maybe it is possible that he was referring to horns made by them, but I don't think that is the case. Mine is a King Cleveland 613. He did mention the ease of moving from D to C# using that method and he prefers the darker sound that results (at least on my sax) by using it. I practiced it some yesterday in case I ever run into that scenario.

That's interesting. I have a King Super 20 and the standard C# fingering sounds perfectly fine to me. Although it is worth mentioning that I am not a fan of dark alto tones.

 

[Pete Effamy]

It might help to know that it was my woodwinds instructor that showed the fingering to me. He does have a family connection to the old H N White Company so maybe it is possible that he was referring to horns made by them, but I don't think that is the case. Mine is a King Cleveland 613. He did mention the ease of moving from D to C# using that method and he prefers the darker sound that results (at least on my sax) by using it. I practiced it some yesterday in case I ever run into that scenario.

With the amount of stylistic ground a saxophone covers, and the myriad of mouthpiece and reed combos it's no wonder there is so much variation.

 

[ESJohn]

GT, I am so jealous! That same instructor told me that when the company was sold, the rights to the Super 20 did not go along with the deal, as that was their top-of-the-line. (Probably topic for another thread!) I think that Pete was dead on as there seem to be endless ways to tweak the sounds coming out these things.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Rats

 

[GCinCT]

Are you talking about the Gb alto or Ab tenor!!! I believe that to be checkmate sir.

What about the C-mel ... oh wait,that one is the same.

 

[Pete Effamy]

What about the C-mel ... oh wait,that one is the same.

I think I over-thought that one.

 

[CliveMA]

There are about a dozen recognised C# alternate fingerings. Check the tables for alternates to lots of other notes.

Clive

 

[ESJohn]

Thanks Clive! That is fascinating. I don't think that I'm at the point to use most of those but as I gain experience, I might try a few!

 

[jbtsax]

I had the good fortune years ago to attend a saxophone master class given by Eugene Rousseau. He listened to a group of very advanced university students play solos and perform saxophone quartets after which he made comments and "coached" them on how to improve their performance. Since the student's tone, intonation, and musical interpretation was nearly flawless (their teacher was a former student of Rousseau) he mainly addressed "style" and the "timber" and texture of longer notes in the pieces they played. He repeatedly had a quartet hold a chord and then instructed individual members to open or close additional keys in order to have the "timbre" of the note they were playing blend better with the other voices.

I walked into the class after over 20 years of playing and teaching the saxophone thinking I knew a lot about "alternate fingerings". I walked out knowing I actually knew very little on that subject. It is sometimes fun to play any note on the saxophone and experiment by opening and closing other keys to change the color or "timbre" or pitch of the sound.