Advice on up-grading m/p; buying lig - metal or leather?

[maggiesimpson]

What can the 'grown-ups' tell me about the best time to up-grade my m/p?
My partner bought my sax for me and it came with what I assume is a bog-standard plastic m/ip, with a metal lig (the sort that looks like what my gran used to call a scarf ring).
I've had a few lessons and in the meantime, I've been reading about how a decent m/p and lig can make your sax sound miles better (I appreciate that it doesn't matter how good your equipment is if your playing is naff, but we all have to start somewhere).
I've been looking at what some retailers have to say and I'd had my sights on on an Otto Link ebonite, with a 6 lay.
(The reason for this is because I made some enquiries and was told that the best thing to do was to go to a shop and try one out.
I don't want to do that for a number of reasons, so I was told that the next best thing is to go by what countless other students have found advantageous).
But when I told my teacher, he said: "Ooh, that's a lot of money. I wouldn't spend that yet."
Well it wasn't going to be my money, it was going to be a birthday present from my partner. But I took a step back and have asked my partner if he will buy it for me for Christmas, instead.
The questions I would like to ask are this:
Is it true that a good/decent lig will make a world of difference?
Does the m/p I was going to buy sound good/bad/okay? (I'd like something to take me through from absolutely cr**, to intermediate and coming along nicely, if poss)
What lig should I ideally use with an Otto Link ebonite?
Is it just a matter of personal preference whether someone uses a leather or metal lig?
Do you think my teacher was right to tell me to leave off buying a new m/p for a while? (I appreciate a lot of people must start learning to play an instrument and then get fed-up and pack it in, so in that case it would be a waste of money, but otherwise?).

Thanks Guys (and gals)

8|

 

[Linky Lee]

I would hope I don't qualify as a 'grown-up' but here's my two cents.

A Yamaha 4C should last any beginner at least a year or two before an upgrade. Often people upgrade very early, some almost straight away.

Generally this gives a slight improvement in sound but makes it harder to play and often if someone upgrades too early they come across tuning issues, biting, and air support (which equals bad tone) much earlier and greater than if they were to stick to the original mouthpiece (as long as it is a good one).

As for facing, I wouldn't recommend a 6 very early on. The larger facing makes it harder to play and gives more available 'pitch bend' which means it's easier to play out of tune.

I generally think the player should be comfortable and have good intonation in extremes of register on a 2.5 strength reed before thinking about getting a mouthpiece with a wider tip opening. You'll save yourself a lot of hassle. I'm speaking from experience.

 

[maggiesimpson]

Linky_Lee wrote:
I would hope I don't qualify as a 'grown-up' but here's my two cents.

A Yamaha 4C should last any beginner at least a year or two before an upgrade. Often people upgrade very early, some almost straight away.

Generally this gives a slight improvement in sound but makes it harder to play and often if someone upgrades too early they come across tuning issues, biting, and air support (which equals bad tone) much earlier and greater than if they were to stick to the original mouthpiece (as long as it is a good one).

As for facing, I wouldn't recommend a 6 very early on. The larger facing makes it harder to play and gives more available 'pitch bend' which means it's easier to play out of tune.

I generally think the player should be comfortable and have good intonation in extremes of register on a 2.5 strength reed before thinking about getting a mouthpiece with a wider tip opening. You'll save yourself a lot of hassle. I'm speaking from experience.

Okay, Linky, but I as think my m/p doesn't appear to be anything special (thin plastic, not rubber), should I up-grade to the afore-mentioned Yamaha 4C now?

And what kind of lig do you recommend?

Thanks

 

[Pete Thomas]

I agree with Linky, a 4C should be great for you. And it will work just great with a yamaha ligature (not sure if they come with one or you have to buy it separately.

Did you read the section on mouthpiececs in the main site, should give a little more info.

You'll know when its time to "upgrade" to anything after the Yamaha, but until you are confident of trying mouthpieces out and making decisions, I reckon its not yet time to change.

 

[nick_cook]

Hi Maggie,

I've only been playing for 2 months and have been wondering the same thing. "Would a better mouthpiece improve my playing?"

I mentioned this to my teacher and she said to stick with the one I've got for now. She also mentioned a shop near to me that allows you to try out mouthpieces and when I do decide to upgrade, I should go there to find a mouthpiece that sounds good to me!

By the way, I've got a Hanson SA5 Alto with a bog standard student mouthpiece.

 

[philthd]

a different piece will make you sound different - not necessarily better.

you only need to change your mouthpiece when it becomes a limiting factor to what youre trying to achieve.

i played on a 4c for years and years (actually 2 or 3, they do break if you hit them against a wall) - including for a grade 8 exam and tv and radio appearances (really, honestly unimpressive ones-but still) and theres always one in my case as a backup.

some horns come with absolute rubbish on the top (including some good horns) and i would expect your teacher to recommend you change it, but a good student piece like the yamaha will last you as long as you want it to.




oh and im going to mention again how great i think bg ligs are

 

[funkymonk]

I don't if this will help but I was in the same position last dec-jan, and I wanted to upgrade my mouthpiece from the one that came with saxophone. I was looking at expensive mouthpieces but ended up gettin the yamaha 4c, and I noticed the difference immediatley (even for me!). And now I'm glad that got it instead of splashing out on a more expensive one, as I have learnt more and I now my technique (that i'm gaining) is helping me decide on my next mouthpiece, even though I have no plans to change for a while -its a really good mouthpiece 9not that I know much tho)

 

[maggiesimpson]

Thanks everyone. Great advice and I will go with it. I will check out the other forum Pete mentioned to see if there's anything about ligs, and the pros and cons of metal v leather.

Cheers!

😉

 

[Linky Lee]

I have only ever noticed a change of tone on 1 mouthpiece on one of my saxes with a ligature, and I think it's because of the way it is held on not the material.

It feels right to me that there should be as little material on the ligature as possible and should be as basic as possible in function.

The principal is to hold the reed securely to the mouthpiece, but to allow the most amount of vibration possible. That is the only reason I dislike BG ligs. They're chunky. Rovners on the other hand I find do the job for me.

 

[philthd]

a bg is chunky, but on most of them the amount of lig touching the reed isnt that much.

 

[Rogerb]

The standard mpc with a Hanson SA-5 is made by ESM, quite a reputable German manufacturer, and it should be good for quite a while.

Of course I haven't taken my own advice, and the counsel of others in this forum...... I have been through *far* too many mpcs in the 18 months I've been playing. 😱

But, as I said elsewhere, it's part of the fun of sax-owning, and much less expensive than continually changing instruments...... I haven't found any of my 'upgrades' difiicult to play, apart from the Selmer S80, which I just couldn't get on with.

I've got to the point now where I can't say that a 'better' mpc would help me..... so I guess I'd better go and practise ....... (but maybe a new sax ??? 😉 😱 ........ only kidding!)

 

[nick_cook]

Hmmm...mine didn't come with the ESM mouthpiece or the BG ligature as advertised on the Hanson site. I bought it from a bloke on this site from the yard sale. He said it would come with the original mouthpiece and ligature.

He hasn't posted on here since, but I might try and get back in touch with him and see what the score is!!!

 

[philthd]

Rogerb wrote:
I have been through *far* too many mpcs in the 18 months I've been playing. 😱

But, as I said elsewhere, it's part of the fun of sax-owning, and much less expensive than continually changing instruments......

your first bit of new gear is your first step to a lifetime of GAS

 

[spike]

. . . your first step to a lifetime of GAS

. . . and the world of voodoo . . .

 

[Linky Lee]

I could of sworn baled beans were the first step?...

does this mean I can have backed beans on toast again?...

 

[Rogerb]

Nick Cook wrote:
Hmmm...mine didn't come with the ESM mouthpiece or the BG ligature as advertised on the Hanson site. I bought it from a bloke on this site from the yard sale. He said it would come with the original mouthpiece and ligature.

He hasn't posted on here since, but I might try and get back in touch with him and see what the score is!!!

Well, the mpc with mine didn't have a mark on it, but Alastair H assured me it was an ESM, and it *definitely* came with a BG lig (BG12, I think).

What *did* the un-named bounder send you? 😉

 

[nick_cook]

My mouthpiece hasn't got a mark on it either, so I might be doing him a misservice!!! The ligature, however, is just a metal one with 'Made in USA' on it.

 

[bobk]

As the current (co-)keeper of Roger's old ESM mpc (it doesn't have any distinguishing marks) I can confirm that it makes a pretty decent beginner's mpc - much better than the no-name ones that came with my saxes. So, if it is an ESM, I'd say its probably a bit better than the lowest of the low bog-standards.

cheers,

Bob

 

[nick_cook]

Well, as my teacher last night said my tone had improved quite a bit since my previous lesson 2 weeks ago, I'll assume I've got a reasonable mouthpiece!! 🙂

 

[spike]

ESM - Probably better known for their clari mouthpieces, the sax pieces are very good, and they've widened and developed the range over the last ten years or so. I've got a couple of "gold rings" in my drawer that I play occaisionally with a harder reed. The factory is not far from where I'm located, and they're very nice people to deal with, I think it's a family business. website is: esm-mouthpiece.de - also in english.
gruss - spike