Saxophones "acoustics - why is a saxophone like a violin" including an alternative take on "the missing cone"

[Pete Effamy]

He has something cone shaped in his hands

View: https://youtu.be/BFtMQTEHnh8

It’s definitely not missing then.

 

[Woodpad]

It’s definitely not missing then.

Now you get the point.

 

[Vetinari]

Something like:

View: https://youtu.be/tJ6XzlzEj0I

This is geat. If I heard it without seeing it and being told it was a sax I would have thought it was a cello.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Now you get the point.

I’m not sure I do really. Violins that could be something else if there was an unending bow… a wind instrument that could be something else if the air supply was constant. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Ghr9204]

a wind instrument that could be something else if the air supply was constant. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Isn't that called a "Bagpipe"?

 

[mizmar]

Fascinating!

Here is a slow-mo of a violin being bowed... Helmholtz'z original work.

View: https://youtu.be/6JeyiM0YNo4


Interesting to think of the sax/clarinet wave form in analogy...

 

[Pete Effamy]

Isn't that called a "Bagpipe"?

A bag of pipes, yes

 

[Ghr9204]

A bag of pipes, yes

I was thinking in terms of how a bagpiper blows into the bag periodically to keep the air supply sufficient to maintain sufficient outlet air supply for the reed assembly by applying the right amount of pressure through the arm by the elbow. Thus, in essence as long as the process is not interrupted, is in fact a "limitless" supply of air.

 

[skeller047]

Violins that could be something else if there was an unending bow… a wind instrument that could be something else if the air supply was constant

Aren’t there bows that are just wheels that run all the time? And there’s the EBow, which works by magnetism, I think. for electric guitars. Regarding limitless supply of air, there is circular breathing - Don Menza and Rahsaan Roland Kirk were both experts.

In my avant-garde college days, I bowed the bell of my saxophone. My recently acquired Mark VI. Ruined the lacquer on the bell rim…. The sacrifices we make for our art!

 

[Pete Effamy]

Aren’t there bows that are just wheels that run all the time? And there’s the EBow, which works by magnetism, I think. for electric guitars. Regarding limitless supply of air, there is circular breathing - Don Menza and Rahsaan Roland Kirk were both experts.

In my avant-garde college days, I bowed the bell of my saxophone. My recently acquired Mark VI. Ruined the lacquer on the bell rim…. The sacrifices we make for our art!

Yes I wondered why circular breathing wasn’t mentioned, but I get frustrated with these science things that suck all manor of music out of music.

 

[Woodpad]

Yes I wondered why circular breathing wasn’t mentioned, but I get frustrated with these science things that suck all manor of music out of music.

Suprise and creativity are parts of good music. Science is not a good method to represent that. People who think they have a perfect theory will not develop further while music goes on.

 

[mizmar]

Suprise and creativity are parts of good music. Science is not a good method to represent that. People who think they have a perfect theory will not develop further while music goes on.

the video in the OP
1/ doesn't take about "good music"
2/ doesn't claim a "perfect" theory of anything
3/ is, indeed, presenting further developments is the science of acoustics (Well, the paper it used was 2019)

https://hal.science/hal-01865994v2/document

I'm at a loss to know, given you watched the video, how you came to that criticism.

A nice bit of science (even if a bit flakey in presentation) is a pleasure to understand for some people. No more or less than some good music.
And if it's about music - the science doesn't diminish the music any more than knowing about the big bang theory diminishes a starry night.

 

[Woodpad]

Not a criticism on the video but on the use of science in general. Science is a tool, not a belief.

 

[Vetinari]

Aren’t there bows that are just wheels that run all the time

There is an instrument called a hurdy gurdy which does that.
p.s. The wheel is hand cranked so occasionally you have to stop to have a rest.

 

[mizmar]

Science is a tool, not a belief.

Well, that's a whole other, off topic.
Science, music, politics, pottery, religion etc. are spheres of human activity. Different things to different people. You can instrumentalise science as a tool. People instrumentalise music - just a money making industry - or politics or science - ditto - etc; others enjoy them aesthetically, or intellectually, spirituality, for person Identity or habit ... It's a choice.
Equally, people can resent such activities for diverse reasons. Also a choice.

 

[Targa]

Not a criticism on the video but on the use of science in general. Science is a tool, not a belief.

Science is a belief which gets changed frequently.

 

[Vetinari]

Science is a belief which gets changed frequently.

FIrst you have to believe that the scientists are correct.

 

[Targa]

FIrst you have to believe that the scientists are correct.

A stopped clock is more correct than scientists, or come to that most people.
At least it is right twice a day.

 

[mizmar]

A stopped clock is ...
At least it is right twice a day.

But you won't know when.
And not a watch that shows day and date. Nor, indeed, a digital or electric watch.
Also a clock that's fractionally fast or slow may only be right once a year or decade or century...
... And even a working watch or clock: How do you know you've set the right time? Set it wrong by a picosecond and it'll never be right... I mean, really, what is "The Right Time" now, anyway?

Which just goes to demonstrate the old Adage:
"Adages aren't wisdom"

 

[mizmar]

picosecond

Ahhhnd - how long is a picosecond?

World's First Ultra-Precise Nuclear Clock Is Within Reach After Major Breakthrough, Researchers Say

The technology, enabled by thorium atoms, could keep time more accurately than atomic clocks and enable new discoveries about gravity, gravitational waves and dark matter

www.smithsonianmag.com

Science. Fab!