Saxophones a strange thing from spain

[Woodpad]

In Bassic sax pics there is one saxophone from Spain (miscellaneous countries) a H. Cleyton (madrid). It looks different so Montserrat doesn't have to be the only unknown woodwind manufacturer in Spain

 

[peterpick]

In Bassic sax pics there is one saxophone from Spain (miscellaneous countries) a H. Cleyton (madrid). It looks different so Montserrat doesn't have to be the only unknown woodwind manufacturer in Spain

actually it is in almost every detail similar, except for the neck's octave arm and the placement of the bell keys. note the number on the lyre holder, the bell brace, the right-hand keywork, the style of the guard wires, and their fixing points. i would say this is likely to be a stencil of a montserrat sold by a shop in madrid......

 

[JayeNM]

actually it is in almost every detail similar, except for the neck's octave arm and the placement of the bell keys. note the number on the lyre holder, the bell brace, the right-hand keywork, the style of the guard wires, and their fixing points. i would say this is likely to be a stencil of a montserrat sold by a shop in madrid......

@peterpick ...tried PM'ing you, your inbox is full at moment.

There is an H. Cleyton Madrid on US eBay...been there for over a year, no bites.

I remember the seller came to the Mean Sax Forum and inquired about it there over a year ago...nobody could help him out, however.

If you want to buy it and seller won't ship internationally, let me know.

You can have him ship to me here in US, input my ship address as yours during checkout, or I can even buy it for you if you send me the $ in advance - I will turn it around, repack to make sure it's safe for transatlantic, and ship on to you if you like.

I can even do some work on her if you want....but you probably have a tech there. But if not, I'd be happy to.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[peterpick]

hi jaye, that one has the neck brace of a kohlert. i wonder if that's what it is, or whether it's only the neck. i'm not going to buy it, but thanks for the information. i wonder what it's doing in nebraska?

 

[Woodpad]

In Spain patentado is patented and brevete is licensed (in French it means patented). The H.Cleyton has the text brevete on the body so it is labeled as a stencil.

On my desk I have the neck of a 1927 Kohlert, body and brace are identical to the H.Cleyton on ebay. The contact of the mechanism with the octave pin is different, it is a full circle.

 

[JayeNM]

hi jaye, that one has the neck brace of a kohlert. i wonder if that's what it is, or whether it's only the neck. i'm not going to buy it, but thanks for the information. i wonder what it's doing in nebraska?

Yeah it is a Kohlert-y brace, I suppose if one were interested they can cross reference with Kohlert neck pics and see if that's just coincidental or if the neck is unoriginal....hard to say a neck tube is identical unless one can measure the two samples in question, but it can be eyeballed somewhat...other things to look for are: shape of the ferrule on the tenon end; the configuration of the saddle and spring stop on the neck tube; and whether the key guide height and design/detailing matches.

...you are welcome, Peter, anytime you (or anyone else here) might come across a US listing "will not ship internationally", keep me in mind. I have done that for Cafe members before.

 

[peterpick]

Yeah it is a Kohlert-y brace, I suppose if one were interested they can cross reference with Kohlert neck pics and see if that's just coincidental or if the neck is unoriginal....hard to say a neck tube is identical unless one can measure the two samples in question, but it can be eyeballed somewhat...other things to look for are: shape of the ferrule on the tenon end; the configuration of the saddle and spring stop on the neck tube; and whether the key guide height and design/detailing matches.

...you are welcome, Peter, anytime you (or anyone else here) might come across a US listing "will not ship internationally", keep me in mind. I have done that for Cafe members before.

thanks jaye, will do, but there are problems with importing from the USA, i think the current import duties amount to 20%, which is a lot. we would have to talk about it. i'm too poor at the moment however. i like king super 20's and zephyr 4s, and i'd like to try a good conn 10M one day.

 

[JayeNM]

(@peterpick ...There's a small way to alleviate by a b it the customs and VAT on your end, we can discuss if ever something catches your eye).

 

[JiJi]

Sorry, I wasn't a member back then !

I saw the saxophone stamped "Montserrat" in Barcelona; I visited that museum. I found another saxophone with the same details and a serial number lower than 1XXX. They look like two Pierret stencils from around 1925. I also know that before becoming a manufacturer, Montserrat was a retailer; his French suppliers were Pierret, Dolnet, and Beaugnier.

The Barcelona collection contains several French stencils that have not been authenticated.

I also know that "International" or "Internacional" is a Montserrat brand name and that Nilliet, Cleyton, and Celssi saxophones are Montserrat stencils.
These appear to be retailer brands. Various myths seem to circulate online regarding Cleyton's existence, its operations in Santiago (8 Calle de Santiago is the address of the retailer Casa Garijo), and its specialization in saxophone manufacturing (though Cleyton trumpets do exist).
As for Nilliet, the origin—whether regarding the manufacturing itself or the parts—is French, yet Nilliet is unknown in the context of French instrument making.

The potential origin of German, Czech, or other supplies is currently unsourced and remains to be determined.

Cordialement.