A new concept for "voicing" notes

[jbtsax]

In my saxophone lesson last week we were discussing harmonics and the altissimo range. As part of that discussion my teacher had me finger low Bb and then "overblow" to Bb2 an octave higher. Then he had me go back and forth between the "harmonic" fingering and the regular fingering for that note and try to make the regularly fingered Bb sound as rich and full as the harmonic one.

Next we went up to F and did the same thing, trying to find the right oral cavity shape and size and airstream to make the regularly fingered F sound as rich as the one produced as a harmonic. Then we went to the next harmonic Bb3 and went through the same process.

Then he pointed out something that should have been obvious to me all these years, but somehow I had missed. He said you try to play all of the notes in the middle register of the sax with the same "voicing" that made Bb2 sound rich and full. Then he said you try to play all the notes in the upper register with the same voicing that worked for Bb3. In other words, to get the very best sound out of the saxophone from top to bottom the oral cavity must be adjusted for each register.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Yes. I slide in and out on the mouthpiece too. Have you tried playing simple tunes on just the mouthpiece?

 

[David Roach]

Yes, good stuff, this is how it works. You can get to the same place of understanding by doing a lot of long-tones and listening carefully to intonation, or indeed doing a lot of practice and playing a lot with other players who have good intonation, but, voicing is the bottom line and the method you have described is undoubtedly the most direct route to the actual changes a player has to make within the oral cavity. Thanks for sharing that concise description.

This should be a resource perhaps?

 

[kevgermany]

This should be a resource perhaps?

Yes, thanks for the suggestion. I'll take it up with Pete.

In the meanwhile, please keep this thread on topic - saves a lot of work when we move it to a resource.

 

[aldevis]

Also matching the tuning of the harmonic fingering with the regular one, helps finding the correct mouthpiece position.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Similar to fine tuning a guitar. Getting the fretted note to match the harmonic by adjusting the bridge.

 

[baritonesax]

Yes - somewhat, but not exactly, analogous to brass players trying to buzz the matching pitch on their mouthpieces to the desired note on the horn. So mouthpiece and instrument are working together rather fighting each other - ie. you get poor a poor(er) unfocused, uncentred sound if you buzz a B on the mouthpiece whilst trying to produce a Bb on the horn.

 

[jimmylh]

My overtones when fingering low Bb never sound as good as the normal fingerings. Obviously I'm not doing it right, but I've never figured out what. I can get the second Bb and the F to speak, but I can never get the ones past that. I see people playing five and six overtones on youtube. I just can't do it and it is very frustrating.

 

[altissimo]

I don't think this is a new concept, I first read bout it in Dave Liebman's book and he learnt it from Joe Allard. I suspect Donald Sinta's book 'Voicing' covers this subject and it has come up on this forum before
it's mentioned in plenty of other places as well eg
http://nicolaslira.com/node/11
https://sax.mymusictalk.com/forums/topic/57/strageties-for-practicing-voicin
http://www.bestsaxophonewebsiteever...g-to-make-your-sound-bigger-and-more-focused/

 

[aldevis]

I see people playing five and six overtones on youtube. I just can't do it and it is very frustrating.

Start with the exercise described in the OP.
Trying to get overtones straight from low Bb is very misleading, unless you are Sigurd Rascher.

 

[David Roach]

As very fine examples of tuning with the oral cavity whilst remaining completely stable and all-but motionless in the lip, see the following videos of the excellent Ralph Bowen.

This Vandoren clip is particularly good as it zooms in very close to his face:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IoUnl_1fgc

and these clips of his quartet are my favourite YouTube watches of the moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okTIraKKf-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M03yXfBmiNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkxdIMULBdk

 

[altissimo]

some useful advice from Harvey Pittel - https://youtu.be/qBBUXbsDA5c?list=PL3325FF3A705DA04A

 

[Ivan]

some useful advice from Harvey Pittel -

Mr White plays sax???

(Sorry Kev couldn't resist)

 

[altissimo]

Mr White plays sax???

(Sorry Kev couldn't resist)

https://youtu.be/U0Y7brwz6fA

 

[Guenne]

Hey,

this
is also a very good book to work on.
I have also been an afficionado of the voicing versus lip pressure concept.
But I think there is more to it. Voicing only can happen more or less "automatically", on a subconcious level, when there is a certain "openness" that is brilliantly described in Keith Stein's "The Art of Clarinet Playing".

Cheers,
Guenne