Saxophones A Dörfler & Jörka (D&J) Project

[helen]

Hi folks. As many of you know I have been researching and writing about D&J saxophones for over 15 years. What you may or may not know, I am in the process of completely revamping Bassic Sax into a brand new site. As such, I am revisiting the old site and updating the content already published before moving it to its new domain. Currently I am working on the Dörfler & Jörka sections of The New Bassic Sax.

What I am looking at doing is trying to catalogue as many of their stencil names, and photographs of the names engraved on the bells as I can.

Please look over the table and add any names you know of that I haven't included.
Please upload any photos you might have of name badges that show what the name engraving looks like.

If you don't know for sure if you have a D&J, feel free to post some pics and there are lots of people here besides me who will be happy to help you out.

Here is a table of the stencil names I have come up with so far

A-E
Artist #300	Boucet	Bufon	Carl Ludwig	Carl Schiller	Clinton	Conder
Convair	De Villiar	De Villiars	Diamond	Diplomat
F-K
Gebr. Alexander Mainz	H. Genet	Impala	Imperial	Jean Baptiste	John Burg Zürich	Julius Keilwerth
Kaiser	Key Tone	King Tempo
L-R
La Sete Professional	National	Original Hopf Classic	Paragon	Pierre Maure Artiste	Ravoy	Rene Dumont
Rodgers	Roxy
S
Saxmaster De Luxe	Sax-Master	Schuler	Senator	Sky	Skymaster	Skytone
SML	Star Tone	Symphonic
T-Z
Toneline Artist	U.S. Bandmaster	Unstencilled	Voss	Warner Concerto

Here are a couple of pics to get you started to help you ID the D&J horns.

• This is the most common engraving seen in the hundreds of horns I have catalogued to date.
• The 3 mountain peaks above the "badge" in which the various names are simply stencilled in.
• There are of course other engraving E.G.s as well, as well as variations on this one.

• The round thumb screw that fastens the neck is a dead give-away you are looking at a D&J.

Note 2 things. Both will ID the horn in question as a D&J and NOT a JK.

1. The round MOP--or plastic--buttons on the key guards.
2. The post shapes.

Looking forward to connecting with all you D&J folks!

 

[helen]

OK, so I got all the D&J pages done... finally... and posted to The New Bassic Sax. Enjoy.

I am hoping this should once and for all end the confusion between D&J and JK, and allow everyone to positively be able to ID their D&J-made saxophone. That said, I am 100% convinced that sellers are still going to try and peddle their D&Js as JKs--all the while pointing to my site as a source.

If you have a stencil name not listed; an unusual key guard; or anything else that is interesting about your D&J, please post it here.

If you're not sure if you have a Dörfler & Jörka saxophone, post some pics here and either myself, or one of the other members who knows the brand well such as @JayeNM will help you out.

 

[Lars Eklund]

Hello!
I’ve got a tenor saxophone bought in Gothenburg about 1990. The brand is Götz and it is marken ”Made in Germany”. It should have been produced before it became West Germany in 1949.
I attach some pictures. What do you think about its history (production year and more)?
Lars Eklund, Vänersborg, Sweden

 

[Lars Eklund]

Pictures…

 

[helen]

That Götz you show is actually a stencil of the Keilwerth The New King. The post shapes, neck attachment, angelwing shape, etc. give that away.

Please look at the D&J page I linked to above to see in detail what I mean.

Since you don't provide a serial # I can't give year a year of manufacturing, but it will follow the standard Keilwerth serial # charts.

 

[turf3]

So does that Keilwerth set screw neck fixing predate the Martin version?

Also I find it interesting that Keilwerth (and Martin) had the set screw on a hang down from the neck and DJ had it on the receiver. At least in theory the Keilwerth-Martin concept allows the entire tenon-receiver joint length to be the seal, whereas the DJ has a penetration partway down the receiver that can leak, and of course most saxes give up a third of the length of the joint for a clamping slot that can't seal.

 

[thomsax]

"The Martin" combined neck was a patent from 1945. I have a "Wikena" alto from mid 50's (# 25XXX) with a neck attachment à la "The Martin". The O.D. on the "Wikena" tenon-reciever is c 24,5 mm and on "The Martin" (#198XXX) the tenon-reciever is c 25,5 mm. The I.D (mouthpiece cork end) is c 12 mm on the "Wikena" and c 13 mm on "The Martin". "The Martin" neck is c 18 mm longer than the "Wikena" neck. The wieght of the "Wikena" neck is 125 g and "The Martin" neck is 173 g. I can't swap the necks. The Martin is too wide (tenon-reciever) to fit the "Wikena". And the "Wikena" screw is not reaching down to the machined track on "The Martin". The screw is mm on "Wikena" and inches on "The Martin". The scrw is not the original on "The Martin". It's probably a replacement screw. I think I can use baritone or sousaphone bell screws ... ??

"The Martin" have a machined track which is not the case on the "Wikena".

 

[thomsax]

"The Martin" to the left and "Wikena" (Keilwerth) to the right.

 

[thomsax]

"The Martin" To the left and the "Wikena" to the right.



"Wikena" is a less fancy sax compared to a "Keilwerth". No "Best In World" TM mark on the back. The have Wikena Trade Mark and "WK" and Made in Germany. I got the information from Gehard Keilwerth for 15-20 years ago.

 

[thomsax]

So does that Keilwerth set screw neck fixing predate the Martin version?

Also I find it interesting that Keilwerth (and Martin) had the set screw on a hang down from the neck and DJ had it on the receiver. At least in theory the Keilwerth-Martin concept allows the entire tenon-receiver joint length to be the seal, whereas the DJ has a penetration partway down the receiver that can leak, and of course most saxes give up a third of the length of the joint for a clamping slot that can't seal.

I think Dörfler & Jörka solution is fine. It can leak but ....

... the point where the screw is hitting the plate that is clamping the tenon is c 15 mm down. The reciever is c 25 mm deep.

 

[thomsax]

Dörfler & Jörka necks and neck joints are well-built. Tight and sturdy. I think Hohner had something in the same style.

 

[helen]

Dörfler & Jörka necks and neck joints are well-built. Tight and sturdy. I think Hohner had something in the same style.
View attachment 36983

From the outside the D&J and Hohner President necks may have looked the same, but the Hohner had a TRUE double socket neck.

This is Hohner President tenor #104xx that I owned.

This is what the neck tenon looked like on these horns.

This is different than other vintage brands where this term "double socket" is thrown around, eg: Zephyr.

This is King Zephyr #315527. See how the tenon on the horn is a single piece of brass, while the neck has a "sleeve" socket that fits over it.

 

[thomsax]

From the outside the D&J and Hohner President necks may have looked the same, but the Hohner had a TRUE double socket neck.

This is Hohner President tenor #104xx that I owned.
View attachment 36987

This is what the neck tenon looked like on these horns.

View attachment 36988

This is different than other vintage brands where this term "double socket" is thrown around, eg: Zephyr.

This is King Zephyr #315527. See how the tenon on the horn is a single piece of brass, while the neck has a "sleeve" socket that fits over it.

View attachment 36989

Is the screw on the Hohner hitting the tenon direct or is it like D&J via a small plate? No doubt, the Hohner was a delicate solution.

 

[thomsax]

Hej Lars.

Hello!
I’ve got a tenor saxophone bought in Gothenburg about 1990. The brand is Götz and it is marken ”Made in Germany”. It should have been produced before it became West Germany in 1949.
I attach some pictures. What do you think about its history (production year and more)?
Lars Eklund, Vänersborg, Sweden

Hej Lars.
I think the neck screw is too long. It's easy to tighten the screw too much and the screw pulls out the "plate. If you have a replacement screw make shure it's not harder than brass. The screw on my alto is 12/6 mm. So a pretty short screw.