Tech/maintenance 1983 Conn 18M Alto Student Sax Restoration

[LostCircuits]

This particular sax is in extremely clean condition with nearly all of tis lacquer in like new condition, case is extremely clean, a bit unusual for its age. It has been properly serviced and sanitized, so commanding a bit more seems reasonable. Selling point is new student saxes are going for considerably more, within a parent's affordability. Plus, they warranty the sax for 90 days on defects plus offer an extended warranty for $60/year.

Plus, that is their asking price. Perhaps there is some dickering room if one pays in cash? In my Post #14 I noticed the bell bottom has a shallow dent in it. Possibly mentioning that may help to hone in a lower price?

View attachment 37441
Star City Music Store photo cropped and reduced in resolution.

For a neophyte it should make a good sax to start on. They seem to be a reputable company which ought to give a parent confidence in dealing with them.

Here is my take on that. If you like the instrument, get it! If you insist on bartering and getting a lower cost, do it but keep in mind that almost all of these shops now hang on by a bare thread and if 100 customers get a $20.- discount, which really does not matter too much for them, it'll be a $2000 cut in their bottom line. If you are talking about MusicGoRound, hey go for it, if you are talking about a brick and mortar store, think about it.

 

[ghostler]

Here is my take on that. If you like the instrument, get it! If you insist on bartering and getting a lower cost, do it but keep in mind that almost all of these shops now hang on by a bare thread and if 100 customers get a $20.- discount, which really does not matter too much for them, it'll be a $2000 cut in their bottom line. If you are talking about MusicGoRound, hey go for it, if you are talking about a brick and mortar store, think about it.

You make a good point, but if you notice, I was mentioning reasons for it commanding a higher cost. My comments were geared toward your earlier comment:

They added $14 to the model number? That's just wrong!

Personally, I am not much of a dickerer and if a cost is beyond me I simply skip and go to another. Otherwise, there is no reason not to make both parties shake hands and be happy. 🤝

 

[thomsax]

I bought it for $90, NM tax and shipping bumped it up to $130.

I found a King 613 being sold by Saxquest, St. Louis, MO, asking $499:

King 613 Student Saxophone in Gold Lacquer, Serial #298295 | Saxquest Saxophone Shop | Saxquest

King Student Alto

www.saxquest.com

View attachment 37405
Saxquest photos merged into one.

It plays but needs servicing. It is the earlier Conn with bell keys on the left side, so it is not the later with the reused 613 model number. Haven't found a later version King 613 (II) yet.

I don't think King Cleveland student saxes (613 and 615) were related to Conn? I like these saxes. Big sound. King Cleveland were made by H.N. White, Cleveland, OH and the later versions by King Musical Instruments Inc, Eastlake, OH. The owner of Conn bought KMI in c 1983. And two years later it was all sold to UMI. The model numbers was (KG) 613K/615K. The later versions of these saxes had drawn toneholes. The early had silver soldered toneholes.

 

[JayeNM]

I don't think King Cleveland student saxes (613 and 615) were related to Conn? I like these saxes. Big sound. King Cleveland were made by H.N. White, Cleveland, OH and the later versions by King Musical Instruments Inc, Eastlake, OH. The owner of Conn bought KMI in c 1983. And two years later it was all sold to UMI. The model numbers was (KG) 613K/615K. The later versions of these saxes had drawn t

Note all the replies here.....When King and Conn and Armstrong were purchased by Dan Henkin in the early 80s, the King 613 made in King's Eastlake factory (as you note) ceased to be produced, and was replaced by a version made by Conn (the Conn 18m, relabeled).
Not certain whether Henkin closed down Eastlake or whether it became the facility making Conns ? Some speculate the Armstrong, Elkhart plant was the location putting all three out.
I dunno....

So, yeah, the 613 was its own beast until the Henkin purchase.

So those 613's bear no resemblence to the Eastlake ones...gets confusing because within a year, the entire design of the model changed yet it was still marketed as the same model....dunno why he didn't just change the model name....

 

[ghostler]

The 18M arrived today, was well packed. The sax is very clean and case is in very good shape considering their age. I noticed that there is a plastic tube like object about 5/8 inch in diameter possibly 4 inches long wedged in the bore about 4 inches from the top edge of the tenon socket. I grabbed a set of needle nose pliers to attempt to extract it. May need to remove a key or two to force it up and out.

Seems possibly a child was horsing with it. I don't think there is any internal damage. Leave for community band rehearsal in an hour. More to come ....

 

[PigSquealer]

May need to remove a key or two to force it up and out.

Probably went in from the bell, but at 4” maybe not. Not sure if 4” would go around bow. I would attempt knocking it down inside first.

 

[Stocker]

Whether this'll alleviate or exacerbate confusion I'm not sure, but I added a Conn/Henkin/UMI model number table to my post-1970 serial number chart page, including King and Armstrong models.

Note all the replies here.....When King and Conn and Armstrong were purchased by Dan Henkin in the early 80s, the King 613 made in King's Eastlake factory (as you note) ceased to be produced, and was replaced by a version made by Conn (the Conn 18m, relabeled).
Not certain whether Henkin closed down Eastlake or whether it became the facility making Conns ? Some speculate the Armstrong, Elkhart plant was the location putting all three out.

Eastlake became the sole brasswind factory for UMI. Most Conn brass became King stencils. (This is, I hear, a sore spot in the low brass world, as the Conn euphoniums, tubas, and sousaphones were evidently far superior designs to what King had.)

 

[LostCircuits]

The 18M arrived today, was well packed. The sax is very clean and case is in very good shape considering their age. I noticed that there is a plastic tube like object about 5/8 inch in diameter possibly 4 inches long wedged in the bore about 4 inches from the top edge of the tenon socket. I grabbed a set of needle nose pliers to attempt to extract it. May need to remove a key or two to force it up and out.

Seems possibly a child was horsing with it. I don't think there is any internal damage. Leave for community band rehearsal in an hour. More to come ....

I would try a standard swab first and see if it catches and moves it up. However, it may get hung up on the body octave pip. But that would be the easiest and possibly safest way to extract it.

 

[JayeNM]

Whether this'll alleviate or exacerbate confusion I'm not sure, but I added a Conn/Henkin/UMI model number table to my post-1970 serial number chart page, including King and Armstrong models.

Eastlake became the sole brasswind factory for UMI. Most Conn brass became King stencils. (This is, I hear, a sore spot in the low brass world, as the Conn euphoniums, tubas, and sousaphones were evidently far superior designs to what King had.)

Ah, interesting. I had always assumed it was Armstrong, Elkhart facility which made UMI saxes.....

 

[PigSquealer]

Ah, interesting. I had always assumed it was Armstrong, Elkhart facility which made UMI saxes.....

I’m learning a lot from you guys here.
@Stocker @JayeNM This information is worthy of a history thread subject.

 

[Stocker]

Ah, interesting. I had always assumed it was Armstrong, Elkhart facility which made UMI saxes.....

I can't be sure they weren't making them at Armstrong as well, but there's Badenia's information that they started building saxes in Nogales, AZ in 1979, the Music Trades article on the 1997 retooling, and a 2002 press release stating that Nogales' product lines were Conn/King saxophones and Artley clarinets.

I don't know where ex-UMI sax production moved after Nogales was closed in 2004, but it had to have been either the Armstrong plant or the Vincent Bach plant.