Breaking a bad habit

[Pete Effamy]

You can sense chest or head voice, and you can feel what your larynx or tongue is doing.
It just requires some attention.

And using terminology like opening the throat must be easier with students than talking about the larynx surely..

 

[Pete Effamy]

Got one , and it‘s working without myself caring about it.

Not so with students with an unsupported airstream though

 

[Guenne]

The diaphragm can only move up and down, nothing more. Down and up I should say

 

[Pete Effamy]

The diaphragm can only move up and down, nothing more. Down and up I should say

Yes, but the student can’t feel it, nor knows anything of it

 

[Jazzaferri]

A great exercise for strengthening diaphragm is to pull stomach in and up and hold it as long as possible.

Got that from Stig Hansen's breathology. Amazing stuff he does.

 

[Guenne]

A great exercise for strengthening diaphragm is to pull stomach in and up and hold it as long as possible

Seriously?
Why should one need to strenghen one‘s diaphragm?
I think the only issue with it could be that people - for whatever reason - don‘t allow it to go down.

But I think I should stop now. It’s a bit offtopic.

 

[Keep Blowing]

Seriously?
Why should one need to strenghen one‘s diaphragm?
I think the only issue with it could be that people - for whatever reason - don‘t allow it to go down.

But I think I should stop now. It’s a bit offtopic.

It's all interesting stuff, so please feel free to continue in any direction you wish

 

[Keep Blowing]

It's all interesting stuff, so please feel free to continue in any direction you wish

As I started the thread I'm presuming it's okay to say that? (Hopefully)

 

[Jeanette]

As I started the thread I'm presuming it's okay to say that? (Hopefully)

Yep

Jx

 

[jbtsax]

All of this discussion about opening the throat has brought me back to Dr. Mark Watkins video series From the Inside Out

Of particular interest to me are the videos showing the opening and closing of the larynx which is part of the throat. I wonder if this is what an "open throat" actually describes in relation to playing a musical instrument.

 

[Jazzaferri]

strong diaphragm = good Air support = good high velocity airstream

@jbtsax I beleive that to be correct....as a ex-singer (though I still do backing vocals) voicing a sax note and voicing a note fel quite similar.

@Guenne Its been a number of years but I think I got this concept from Leibs book. I have a very highly arched tongue position rolled into a narrow orifice to direct as high a velocity airstream at the mpce as I can. I do play very open mpces with mid range reeds to get a full easier to control altissimo and maybe that has something to do with it. If I relax and play my setup with a low tongue and low diaphragm support I sound "honky"

When I am really playing, if I pay attention to it, my stomach is pressing in and up to create pressure...at least that's how it feels. Not saying its right but it works for me

 

[Keep Blowing]

All of this discussion about opening the throat has brought me back to Dr. Mark Watkins video series From the Inside Out

Of particular interest to me are the videos showing the opening and closing of the larynx which is part of the throat. I wonder if this is what an "open throat" actually describes in relation to playing a musical instrument.

View attachment 13289

Fascinating and bizarre

 

[Guenne]

strong diaphragm = good Air support = good high velocity airstream

The diaphragm does nothing but go down in inhaling and up in inhaling.
Support IMHO is how you manage the "up" by using the muscles of your breathing apparatus.
Good breath support IMHO never is a question of strength, but of good coordination.

If you say "in and up" that's in fact the movement that has to occur, but it has nothing to do with a strong diaphragm IMHO.

Cheers, Guenne

 

[jbtsax]

I have a friend who recently retired as a tuba instructor at a local university. He shared with me that he teaches "breath support" by first having his students hold a half sheet of paper against a window in front of their face. They then release their finger and blow at the same time trying to hold the paper up as long as possible. I concluded from this exercise that "breath support" simply means "pressurized air" and incorporated this method into my teaching as well.

 

[trimmy]

"pressurized air"

Which is cold air and we want warm air don’t we ?

 

[Guenne]

tuba instructor

"Song and Wind" by Arnold Jacobs is an interesting book.
There are some videos on youtube, unfortunately the quality is not very good.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW-WFAvqiT0

Which is cold air and we want warm air don’t we ?

I think we want both, depending in which register we are playing, or which sound quality we want.

Cheers

 

[Jazzaferri]

@Guenne you might do well to read the Diaphragmatic Breathing link as well

The diaphragm is the most efficient muscle of breathing. It is a large, dome-shaped muscle located at the base of the lungs. Your abdominal muscles help move the diaphragm and give you more power to empty your lungs (Cleveland Medical Clinic)

Diaphragmatic Breathing Exercises & Benefits

Diaphragmatic breathing is an exercising technique to help strengthen your diaphragm and fill your lungs with air more efficiently.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Keep Blowing]

Joe Allard had his students doing some sort of breathing exercises using a Yoga position.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Joe Allard had his students doing some sort of breathing exercises using a Yoga position.

Music teachers used to have their students doing lots of things but it all looks far too dodgy in these times of no contact whatsoever!

 

[Keep Blowing]

I

Music teachers used to have their students doing lots of things but it all looks far too dodgy in these times of no contact whatsoever!

Its understandable but sad at the same time