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Hi yes, got the travel sax. Cant beat it in terms of size but I must say the keys are very flimsy especially the palm keys. Its good for practice when traveling and size really is the deal breaker but otherwise I still bring a soprano and play the 90% air and 10% tone thing. .
I got my YDS yesterday. I am impressed with the vast dynamic range, and there is more articulation effect picked up by the breath sensor than I expected. I now understand better the inclusion of a mouthpiece and plastic reed. I'm looking forward to understanding better how much of the expression data gets into the MIDI signal. If all the information the YDS uses to control its onboard sounds ultimately can get mapped to MIDI it's not obvious to me what else one would ask for in a MIDI controller (but then I repeat: I know very little about digital music making.) If something gets figured out for improve the higher ranges of onboard sax sounds this thing could become very useful indeed.
I started a post here which I hope anyone with experience will add to:
cafesaxophone.com
Wind Controller - MIDI for Wind Controllers : How to optimise
As discussions of EWI have flared up recently with the advent of several new sax-like instruments, the M word again rears its sometimes ugly head. Ugly in that, for the average mortal, if it doesn't work out of the box, they are lost. I would like anyone who has knowledge and/or experience to...
cafesaxophone.com
I would assume MIDI is MIDI, no? GB is the little sibling of Logic.
shamba504424
Member
- Messages
- 173
- Location
- Edgworth near Bolton
After a little dispute with my initial 3D printer I can recommend the following link for anyone looking for an adapter to fit the YDS150 and at £8.50 very reasonable price https://www.sgd3d.co.uk/
shamba504424
Member
- Messages
- 173
- Location
- Edgworth near Bolton
Ordered yesterday morning and arrived lunchtime today,great service
Hi, could you share how should I order one of these there? Do I need a file with specs to send them or they already have a product code to order? Thank you very much for the help!! Cheers!
The printer is a service. Normally you'll send the design to them to print (design linked several times in this thread). It is possible if you contact them they may know the design from having used it recently, and you might not need to link it, but it is more efficient to do the normal process of sending them the link to the file.
shamba504424
Member
- Messages
- 173
- Location
- Edgworth near Bolton
Hello Rodolfo,if you use the one for the company I posted they already have the file so just need to contact them with your details but I see you are in Brazil so if you just send your chosen printer the link to the file that is posted in earlier pages in this thread and they can use the info from that
I've been playing the sax for over 50 years, and although I still have much to learn, my interest in the YDS-150 isn't as a way to learn to play the sax. I realize that the YDS can never actually duplicate an acoustic sax, but I do wonder how well it can, with a little coaxing, pass for one. I've watched many YouTube videos, and listened to Randy's very helpful Soundcloud recordings, and I'm starting to get a feel for what the YDS-150 can and can't do.
I have to agree that, at this price point ($800 US), it's inexcusable to have obligatory auto-vibrato on any of the voices.
The absence of a bite sensor is an issue, but shouldn't be a dealbreaker IF...and only if, the same pitch-bending work can be done with the analog thumb controller. I gather that, at the current time, it can't be, because the minimum pitch bend is a semitone. But here's question number 1.
1. Does the analog controller allow you to control manually the duration of the pitch bend? Or is it more like a trigger than activates a bend of a preset duration?
2. A nuanced acoustic instrument sample should be layered, so that timbre changes with breath pressure. Stronger breath pressure should produce a brighter sound, with more overtones. Yamaha certainly knows how to do this, in their digital pianos, for example. What about the YDS-150?
3. Related to the last question, a hard attack on a note on an acoustic sax produces a sharp sound, due to the brighter timbre of the forceful air flow. How well does the YDS-150 do this? One of Randy's Soundcloud samples had some fairly hard note attacks, and the YDS-150 vs Real saxophone video also has some, and I think I hear some decent attack response, but it would be nice to see this explicitly tested and demonstrated.
4. Legato. This is tricky, because the "space" between one note and the next is what has to determine the attack on the following note. Below a certain threshold, there should be little to no attack. Listening to sample videos, etc, my impression is that the YDS-150 does something to achieve legato, but not quite enough. Is that a fair observation?
Again, it's not a real sax; never will be. But the things I've mentioned are doable, and in an $800 instrument purporting to be a digital sax, they should be done. For example, the SWAM sax voices, which I've used, somehow are smart enough to convert breath vibrato into real sax-style vibrato, and they handle attack and legato just fine.
I have to agree that, at this price point ($800 US), it's inexcusable to have obligatory auto-vibrato on any of the voices.
The absence of a bite sensor is an issue, but shouldn't be a dealbreaker IF...and only if, the same pitch-bending work can be done with the analog thumb controller. I gather that, at the current time, it can't be, because the minimum pitch bend is a semitone. But here's question number 1.
1. Does the analog controller allow you to control manually the duration of the pitch bend? Or is it more like a trigger than activates a bend of a preset duration?
2. A nuanced acoustic instrument sample should be layered, so that timbre changes with breath pressure. Stronger breath pressure should produce a brighter sound, with more overtones. Yamaha certainly knows how to do this, in their digital pianos, for example. What about the YDS-150?
3. Related to the last question, a hard attack on a note on an acoustic sax produces a sharp sound, due to the brighter timbre of the forceful air flow. How well does the YDS-150 do this? One of Randy's Soundcloud samples had some fairly hard note attacks, and the YDS-150 vs Real saxophone video also has some, and I think I hear some decent attack response, but it would be nice to see this explicitly tested and demonstrated.
4. Legato. This is tricky, because the "space" between one note and the next is what has to determine the attack on the following note. Below a certain threshold, there should be little to no attack. Listening to sample videos, etc, my impression is that the YDS-150 does something to achieve legato, but not quite enough. Is that a fair observation?
Again, it's not a real sax; never will be. But the things I've mentioned are doable, and in an $800 instrument purporting to be a digital sax, they should be done. For example, the SWAM sax voices, which I've used, somehow are smart enough to convert breath vibrato into real sax-style vibrato, and they handle attack and legato just fine.
Lobo
New Member
- Messages
- 4
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
To learn only sax fingering on a silent play instrument with headphones, get an Aerophone AE-10. But to learn to play sax, you'll need a ... sax.
Hi Ubizmo,
1. Analog controller works exactly like a joystick, you control duration and degree within the parameter setting. I think you could get pretty fine with the control.
2-3. There are tone changes with tonguing and dynamic changes. I haven't tested all the voices in depth but I have noticed as many as 2 textural changes fading in and out with dynamic changes on some voices. I find playing with dynamics to be super easy on this thing.
4. Perhaps we are used to a certain "something" an acoustic micro-softness between notes on a real sax (?)--on the YDS the notes change instantly which may feel comparatively like a hint of attack, like the 'pop' of very cleanly fingered legato on a violin? One could perhaps develop tonguing techniques to soften these transitions?
Lobo - however useful some other option may be, practicing fingering on the YDS translates very easily to the real thing and has effectively quadrupled my practice time.
1. Analog controller works exactly like a joystick, you control duration and degree within the parameter setting. I think you could get pretty fine with the control.
2-3. There are tone changes with tonguing and dynamic changes. I haven't tested all the voices in depth but I have noticed as many as 2 textural changes fading in and out with dynamic changes on some voices. I find playing with dynamics to be super easy on this thing.
4. Perhaps we are used to a certain "something" an acoustic micro-softness between notes on a real sax (?)--on the YDS the notes change instantly which may feel comparatively like a hint of attack, like the 'pop' of very cleanly fingered legato on a violin? One could perhaps develop tonguing techniques to soften these transitions?
Lobo - however useful some other option may be, practicing fingering on the YDS translates very easily to the real thing and has effectively quadrupled my practice time.
Appreciation of the YDS-150 is as nuanced as choosing a mate! Once you have played a saxophone, you can never feel like you're playing one on any digital instrument I've ever seen or heard of at any price. That means a digital instrument is always going to be some kind of compromise. Like your partner who is charming but requires a lot of material things, of the one you love whose charms aren't physical.
The YDS has a certain practical sense, but she also has pretty bad teeth (sounds). She costs a bundle, and needs special skills on your part to make certain sounds. Enough with the analogies.
The analogue controller sounds very much like a synthesizer, because that's what it is. I find it's excellent on the harmonica sound. I've tried to do falls with it, but you're right in that I'm annoyed that it can't be adjusted to a half tone. There does't seem to be a way to get feedback to Yamaha. Irritating, that is, because there are two big things they could fix in software: that bloody vibrato and the smaller steps on the analogue pitch control. Both would make a significant difference.
I've already expressed my personal satisfaction with it, but I'll list the traits and use cases again:
And the cons:
Or to be even more concise, the physical part of the instrument is very good. The software part could be improved considerably. Good sounds would probably be hard to fit in the unit of this size and shape.
The YDS has a certain practical sense, but she also has pretty bad teeth (sounds). She costs a bundle, and needs special skills on your part to make certain sounds. Enough with the analogies.
The analogue controller sounds very much like a synthesizer, because that's what it is. I find it's excellent on the harmonica sound. I've tried to do falls with it, but you're right in that I'm annoyed that it can't be adjusted to a half tone. There does't seem to be a way to get feedback to Yamaha. Irritating, that is, because there are two big things they could fix in software: that bloody vibrato and the smaller steps on the analogue pitch control. Both would make a significant difference.
I've already expressed my personal satisfaction with it, but I'll list the traits and use cases again:
- Look ma, no cables at all. (Although that sound isn't loud enough or very good.)
- Try all the saxes (Bb, Eb...) for range when learning or creating.
- Transpose to any key you like
- Program weird or alternative fingerings
- Silent practice, or quiet practice without earphones.
- The midi out via USB allows very good midi use with a DAW.
- Using that MIDI, you can play into a DAW and then print a melody or a part
- The audio out via USB is superb, if you have sounds you want.
Note that in the sax sounds, the bari works as a background part with effects. Think of "You Ain't nothing but a Hound Dog" with a bari sound playing that iconic ostenato lick.
- soprano is another "almost win" with effects supplied by you.
- You can get some modern synthy sounds that keyboard players use, and some octave and fifth stuff sounds good for a minute.
- Horn parts: I think you could record bari and tenor parts, then add a real alto. That usually makes the "section" sound more realistic
And the cons:
- TURN THE VIBRATO OFF!
- Give us smaller units for the pitch controller
- The sounds are atrocious for the most part
- A pretty steep price for what you get
Or to be even more concise, the physical part of the instrument is very good. The software part could be improved considerably. Good sounds would probably be hard to fit in the unit of this size and shape.
I was listening to this guy last night...
View: https://youtu.be/fpixth9CW8o
He tries hard to use that analog controller to do scoops in a natural sounding way. Mostly he fails, and they end up sounding too synthy, but a couple of times he does better. This suggests that there's a skill to it that could be dialed in. I used to own an Aerophone AE-5, and I found that setting the bite sensor to about a third of a tone (35%) gave me the best results. The YDS-150 should allow it to be set to as little as a quarter tone, as someone has already suggested in this thread.
Speaking of the AE-5, the instrument sounds on that were much worse than the YDS-150. That's why I finally sold it. I just didn't much care for the whole Frankenstein situation of needing to connect to a DAW with additional sounds to get decent output. I ended up buying the SWAM sax suite, which set me back some money, then not really using it.
But the SWAM sax voices show what's possible, which makes it even more frustrating to settle for junk sounds.
For what it's worth, having now listened to dozens of different YouTube efforts with the YDS-150, my reaction to the sounds isn't as harsh as yours, randulo. Except for the soprano, which does sound pretty bad to me. The soft tenor has a pleasing sound, and would be even better if you could get rid of that vibrato, or at least delay its onset. Is that adjustable through the app?
I also agree that the flute sound isn't bad.
As a sax player, I'm put off by the use of a real but non-functional mouthpiece and reed. This is useless for embouchure training, so what's the point? They might as well put one of these on it:
That's the alternative "recorder" mouthpiece for the Roland Aerophone mini, which also has no bite sensor. In fact, it would probably make sense to add a tip like that to the 3D printed bent necks you guys have been discussing in this thread, and be done with the whole mouthpiece and reed canard.
As you can tell, I'm interested in this instrument. I play sax, flute, recorders, ocarina, etc. in church, and also at open mics. I'm not formally trained on sax, but I've played most of my life and I'm comfortable with it. My flute playing is erratic and generally weak. But often a flute or some other "classical" C instrument is needed for the church stuff. And occasionally alto or bari parts are useful. I don't even own an alto or bari sax anymore; just the tenor. So the YDS-150 could potentially be very handy.
When I had the Aerophone AE-05, I tried sending the sound via aux cable to a portable 25W Aomais speaker, and the result was perfectly fine for church use. About the same volume as the acoustic sax without amplification. It's also fine for music circle jams, etc. So that would also work with the YDS-150, and if I ever need something with more power, I can get it.
But I'm still on the fence. Some of the negatives are pretty negative, and the price is non-trivial for me.
He tries hard to use that analog controller to do scoops in a natural sounding way. Mostly he fails, and they end up sounding too synthy, but a couple of times he does better. This suggests that there's a skill to it that could be dialed in. I used to own an Aerophone AE-5, and I found that setting the bite sensor to about a third of a tone (35%) gave me the best results. The YDS-150 should allow it to be set to as little as a quarter tone, as someone has already suggested in this thread.
Speaking of the AE-5, the instrument sounds on that were much worse than the YDS-150. That's why I finally sold it. I just didn't much care for the whole Frankenstein situation of needing to connect to a DAW with additional sounds to get decent output. I ended up buying the SWAM sax suite, which set me back some money, then not really using it.
But the SWAM sax voices show what's possible, which makes it even more frustrating to settle for junk sounds.
For what it's worth, having now listened to dozens of different YouTube efforts with the YDS-150, my reaction to the sounds isn't as harsh as yours, randulo. Except for the soprano, which does sound pretty bad to me. The soft tenor has a pleasing sound, and would be even better if you could get rid of that vibrato, or at least delay its onset. Is that adjustable through the app?
I also agree that the flute sound isn't bad.
As a sax player, I'm put off by the use of a real but non-functional mouthpiece and reed. This is useless for embouchure training, so what's the point? They might as well put one of these on it:
That's the alternative "recorder" mouthpiece for the Roland Aerophone mini, which also has no bite sensor. In fact, it would probably make sense to add a tip like that to the 3D printed bent necks you guys have been discussing in this thread, and be done with the whole mouthpiece and reed canard.
As you can tell, I'm interested in this instrument. I play sax, flute, recorders, ocarina, etc. in church, and also at open mics. I'm not formally trained on sax, but I've played most of my life and I'm comfortable with it. My flute playing is erratic and generally weak. But often a flute or some other "classical" C instrument is needed for the church stuff. And occasionally alto or bari parts are useful. I don't even own an alto or bari sax anymore; just the tenor. So the YDS-150 could potentially be very handy.
When I had the Aerophone AE-05, I tried sending the sound via aux cable to a portable 25W Aomais speaker, and the result was perfectly fine for church use. About the same volume as the acoustic sax without amplification. It's also fine for music circle jams, etc. So that would also work with the YDS-150, and if I ever need something with more power, I can get it.
But I'm still on the fence. Some of the negatives are pretty negative, and the price is non-trivial for me.
1. That vibrato always sounds like crap and ruins whatever you do with long notes.
2. True I think you can get to the point where bends will sound natural.
3. None of these instruments will ever sound even close to what we get on a sax, but:
Will your average audience member like it? That's really the only that matters. If this sound pleases them, it's probably worth playing.
I suggest that regardless of the sound you play on digital instruments, it has to be kept SHORT. I personally got really tired of this sound after less than a minute. If I listen to 1:13 to about 2:10 it would make a decent solo section. Even then, I rather hear a minute of this:
View: https://youtu.be/taZ7e7dOTP8?t=164
2. True I think you can get to the point where bends will sound natural.
3. None of these instruments will ever sound even close to what we get on a sax, but:
Will your average audience member like it? That's really the only that matters. If this sound pleases them, it's probably worth playing.
I suggest that regardless of the sound you play on digital instruments, it has to be kept SHORT. I personally got really tired of this sound after less than a minute. If I listen to 1:13 to about 2:10 it would make a decent solo section. Even then, I rather hear a minute of this:
10kvClockMan
Member
- Messages
- 53
- Location
- London
thank you very much for this, I have downloaded it and it is printing right now.Hello there! There's a plan to download, thanks to @Vadda, and here is the file, which is buried in the long sequence of comments:
Yamaha YDS 150 Neck angle adapter by vadda
Having found the YDS150 grip uncomfortable, I designed these adapters, with different angles, to be able to adapt the sax in the best way.After several attempts I have found that I am happy with the n ° 1 as the others are too relieving their thumb from the weight on the octave key.The o'ring...www.thingiverse.com
I have another question about the YDS-150, concerning the way you blow it. As I mentioned, I used to own an Aerophone AE-05 "Go", and I currently own (but almost never touch) an Aerophone AE-01 "Mini." In both of these, you are essentially blowing through a length of aquarium tubing. I found this oddly fatiguing, compared to an actual sax. I assume this is because the diameter of the tube is small. The best way to describe the fatigue/discomfort is that it feels like I can't release my breath fast enough.
Anyway, the YDS-150 is obviously also based on this tube approach, but I'm wondering if the tube is wider across, to make it more free blowing than the others.
Anyway, the YDS-150 is obviously also based on this tube approach, but I'm wondering if the tube is wider across, to make it more free blowing than the others.
A small YDS-150 heads-up - Clean the mouthpiece and reed
If you have a YDS-150 and are playing it much, be sure to take the mouthpiece off, remove the ligature and reed, and carefully wipe the grunge off of them, washing the mouthpiece in warm water and drying it inside and out with a soft cloth. After about a month, mine gets filthy with gunk that can't be good for the instrument or your own personal hygiene. This is probably also true of the WX-5 reed (which needs to be unscrewed) and mpc opening.
If you have a YDS-150 and are playing it much, be sure to take the mouthpiece off, remove the ligature and reed, and carefully wipe the grunge off of them, washing the mouthpiece in warm water and drying it inside and out with a soft cloth. After about a month, mine gets filthy with gunk that can't be good for the instrument or your own personal hygiene. This is probably also true of the WX-5 reed (which needs to be unscrewed) and mpc opening.
Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀
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