The inbetween bits (if thats what you call it)

[funkymonk]

Hi guys. My blues sax is coming along really well. Nowadays I'm thinking less in scales (ie minor and major) and more about melody. However I'm struggling to get the fast bits that sound a bit out and crazy. I've read its all about throwing in some bebop scales. I'm not struggling with speed just with what to do. Has anyone got anytips for starting. Say for example I'm playing In D, bluesy type stuff what can i play inbetween melodies. If anyone can direct me it'd be great, and sorry If this is a stupid question that has been answered thousands of times. I'm just stuck.

 

[colin_]

Hi,

There are some interesting thoughts on improvising throughout this site but I remember posting a few ideas here a while back where there was a good discussion on this very topic.

One of the main things though (as always) is listening to and transcribing recordings or little phrases that you like the sound of and using them as starting points for your own ideas. The great thing about the blues too is that because it is usually constructed from dominant 7th chords, there are just oodles of different scales and sounds you can play with over them: Mixolydian, Major/Minor Blues, Diminished, Whole Tone, Altered, Be Bop, Chromatic and various major and minor Pentatonics.

Are you comfortable with playing the chord changes (arpeggios) as well as using the Blues scale? If not this is also a good place to start. If you are playing a standard blues in D, start by playing the arpeggios of each chord and follow the changes. But then progress to harmonising the mixolydian scale as each chord plays. So on a D7 you could play arpeggios as follows: D7 / Em7 / F#m7b5 / Gmaj7 / Am7 / Bm7 / Cmaj7

Listen to the sound each arpeggio makes in relation to the wrtten chord and they should take you off in a new direction. I particularly like starting on a Major 7th arpeggio, a tone below the key note of a dominant chord, it's got a nice flavour for me.

You can also think about starting each phrase a semitone away from a chord tone and then resolving it. Again in D you could play: D#-D, G-F#, Bb-A, C#-C. Create some exercises based on these ideas and gradually start working them into your solos, it will become second nature.

If you're already past these stages, forgive me - you will be looking for more professional help.

Good luck!

 

[jools]

Sometimes (and I know this isn't theoretical, but) it works just to 'wig out' and play what you feel. Playing "out" is tricky if your ears are used to trying to do it 'properly'. Just pick a random key and do a run there. Or another good trick are the whole-tone scales (there's only two). It's more to do with being able to 'resolve' your 'madness' back into the current key or chord.

 

[philthd]

you can get away with playing any old crap as long as you can find a way to make it make sense

but if youre doing arpeggiation - Ebm9 over a D has some nice juicy stuff in it

 

[Bobby G]

As long as you get back to something like the key you're supposed to be in once in a while, there are very few notes that don't fit somewhere , the trick is not to accent the 'wrong' notes too heavily on the 'on' beats.

From what I've worked out by ear, the earlier suggestion of arpeggios 'off' the main chord seems to work ok, and the whole-tone scale works well on the dominant (A7 if you're in D).

 

[Simon]

Hi

Learn 100s of tunes. The answers are in those. 'Outside' is usually just some 'inside' bit in a different context. It's learning to hear the melodies in new contexts - that's where the work is.

Colin suggested transcribing - this is dead right. Here you'll learn bits of tunes or solos from tunes that you 'assimilate' and with practice, perform where and when you hear it in a context.

And it's your own ability that will make for an exciting performance consistently, than doing 'mental gym' with 'this scale/chord over that' at the time.

Simon

FunkyMonk wrote:
Hi guys. My blues sax is coming along really well. Nowadays I'm thinking less in scales (ie minor and major) and more about melody. However I'm struggling to get the fast bits that sound a bit out and crazy. I've read its all about throwing in some bebop scales. I'm not struggling with speed just with what to do. Has anyone got anytips for starting. Say for example I'm playing In D, bluesy type stuff what can i play inbetween melodies. If anyone can direct me it'd be great, and sorry If this is a stupid question that has been answered thousands of times. I'm just stuck.

 

[tengu01]

Hi Simon,

This may sound like a silly question but do you mean learning the melody of hundreds of tunes? Or transcribing hundreds of solos from tunes?

 

[Bobby G]

I think Simon must mean learning hundreds of tunes, transcribing that many would take a lifetime!

 

[losaavedra]

Funnily enough I'm mostly interested in the twiddly bits too ("why can't you play a tune now and again" says my Good Lady Wife?!?). Anyway I found a Karaoke backing track for Mack The Knife yesterday and it seems to have a lot going for it in terms of twiddle potential ... plus it forces me to change key several times within the tune ... Bb then B then C then C# then D then Eb I think. Mind you ... GLW didn't appreciate it quite as I expected she might ... but she was on the 'phone at the time!
Anyway, I'm going to create a few backing versions with Audacity (tempo changes to faster or slower) and work on it for a bit.

 

[jools]

A trick I picked up at Leeds Music College was to learn a load of 'patterns' (logical interval licks... 1231, 2342, 3453, 4564 etc... that sort of thing) you can apply them - a semitone up from the song's key. Sounds really "oout there" man.

But yes, as Simon says. learn as many "head' tunes as you can. Really dig into the "songbook" of the genre that appeals to you. Get to understand the note choices. The more you 'internalise' the more vocabulary you will truly "own" - then it becomes yours to brandish like a big shiny sword - and the audience will LOVE you for it.