Saxophone beginners Should I be able to sight read this?

[Dibbs]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvj2fD9a-b8

 

[Colin the Bear]

Loads of answers to "not the question asked".

 

[Pete Thomas]

Loads of answers to "not the question asked".

That's because the question did not have any one answer, more of a it depends what you mean by "should" or "sight read."

Hence questions like these do lead to long discussions.

 

[skeller047]

…

Actual 100% sight reading would mean a situation where (for example on a live performance) you have a music stand with possibly several hundred charts and have a band leader who gives you just about enough time to find the music if you are lucky before launching into it.

These are situations where the main crucial thing while actually reading is to note any D.S. signs or repeat start bars. All while also looking ahead a bar or two and obeying dynamics and tempo changes.

I’m quite glad to have been able to no longer do those sorts of gigs.

Yes, that is sight reading. When I played in casinos, this was a common, sometimes daily, experience for me. It is what I mean by sight reading. Otherwise, it’s just “reading”.

Back to the “should” part. Reading music is a good skill to have, if only because you now have access to thousands of pieces of music, some of it good, that you otherwise wouldn’t. Sight reading is an important skill for professionals, but for people who don’t expect to have a career playing in larger ensembles, it’s not really necessary.

I actually think now, with the benefit of decades of hindsight, that ear training is a more important skill. While that may partly be because I concentrate on music where listening skillls are critical (improvised music), it also pays off when playing from a written part with other people.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

There can be two types of sight reading.
1. You get about 1 minute to look at the music, then you play it.
Usually part of auditions.
2. You're on the bandstand, the leader calls a tune, often from a list of requests, you open to that page in the fake book, nod that you're on that page, tempo is set, and you play.
Easy money for those kids that practiced.

I remember a pianist, that was sight reading an opera, just got the book when the Met understudies, in full costume, arrived at the school.
He had a pianist page turner, and got busy quickly. The singers from the Met, gave him a long, well deserved applause.

 

[Digger2054]

Yes & no will be my answer.

If you have practised sight reading, then yes. If you haven't no.

My teacher is of the believe that rhythm is it's own subject, and should be practised/learnt/taught in isolation, separate the playing of instrument.

He compares it to learning another language, and he compares it to teaching young children to talk.

Using phonetics to understand rhythm. Kids do learn this at school, our conductor is a school educator, and often explains rhythms with phonetic saying "Oh Look A Big Dog" rings a bell at the start of a bond theme.

If you can look at a written rhythm, and 'hear' what it should sound like, that then leaves where to position the rhythm, either just before, just after, or on the beat.

Back to the kids learning to talk, they learn colours, basic words like "Ball", "Cat", "Dog" and before you know it they put the two together and can spot a "Red Ball", "Blue Ball" without having to sit down and teach them every single colour of ball possible.

The other tip I was given was to 'spot' patterns - For example identify arpeggios in the music, what arpeggios they are, intervals etc, and if you've done your home work, suddenly you're able to play bit from muscle memory.

He's spent a lifetime refining those skills, but assures me it works. Whilst no where near the level he's at, during a rehearsal I can hear people clapping, counting 1 & 2 &... stuttering, trying to put a rhythm together, where I can 'sing' the rhythm. Not all, and when I first started practising this, I did feel a bit of an idiot as even basic rhythms were initially beyond me.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Using phonetics to understand rhythm. Kids do learn this at school, our conductor is a school educator, and often explains rhythms with phonetic saying "Oh Look A Big Dog" rings a bell at the start of a bond theme.

I have a problem with this. I have had the odd new student that comes along and tells me that a certain rhythm is “mum-my” or something. I had no idea what they were talking about, and it certainly didn’t help them play the correct rhythm.

That gives two problems as far as I’m concerned: no correlation to the correct terminology, and then having to learn that terminology anew. If phonetics works, then teach the correct terminology but say that “it sounds like…”: couple them together.

Another problem is regional pronunciation and accent: some vowels will be elongated and the words used as a representation of a certain rhythm won’t work.

 

[mizmar]

There are variations on the takadimi approach; I don't know why none have been included in the pedagogical cannon as standard.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

If you first listen to any music, classical, jazz or pop, and then put the sheet on the stand, is that still considered .....
sight reading? 🧐

 

[Digger2054]

I have a problem with this. I have had the odd new student that comes along and tells me that a certain rhythm is “mum-my” or something. I had no idea what they were talking about, and it certainly didn’t help them play the correct rhythm.

That gives two problems as far as I’m concerned: no correlation to the correct terminology, and then having to learn that terminology anew. If phonetics works, then teach the correct terminology but say that “it sounds like…”: couple them together.

Another problem is regional pronunciation and accent: some vowels will be elongated and the words used as a representation of a certain rhythm won’t work.

I don't disagree with you and can see it being problematic, if using words. My teacher uses more 'sounds' than words. "boo dat" for example.

What terminology should we be using? Note names have their place, but when reading a rhythm don't really provide any insight into how they should sound (standfast triplets)

 

[Pete Effamy]

"boo dat" for example.

This I understand! It’s a way of giving articulation and accents. It’s basically scat singing.

 

[Dr G]

Yes & no will be my answer.

If you have practised sight reading, then yes. If you haven't no.

My teacher is of the believe that rhythm is it's own subject, and should be practised/learnt/taught in isolation, separate the playing of instrument.

He compares it to learning another language, and he compares it to teaching young children to talk.

Using phonetics to understand rhythm. Kids do learn this at school, our conductor is a school educator, and often explains rhythms with phonetic saying "Oh Look A Big Dog" rings a bell at the start of a bond theme.

If you can look at a written rhythm, and 'hear' what it should sound like, that then leaves where to position the rhythm, either just before, just after, or on the beat.

Back to the kids learning to talk, they learn colours, basic words like "Ball", "Cat", "Dog" and before you know it they put the two together and can spot a "Red Ball", "Blue Ball" without having to sit down and teach them every single colour of ball possible.

The other tip I was given was to 'spot' patterns - For example identify arpeggios in the music, what arpeggios they are, intervals etc, and if you've done your home work, suddenly you're able to play bit from muscle memory.

He's spent a lifetime refining those skills, but assures me it works. Whilst no where near the level he's at, during a rehearsal I can hear people clapping, counting 1 & 2 &... stuttering, trying to put a rhythm together, where I can 'sing' the rhythm. Not all, and when I first started practising this, I did feel a bit of an idiot as even basic rhythms were initially beyond me.

It’s all about learning vocabulary, whether basic rhythms, arpeggios. scale fragments, or common four note patterns. Once you start to recognize blocks of notes vs reading each note, it’s like the difference between reading words and sounding out letters.

 

[Jeanette]

Thanks for the comments everyone!

Normally I don't have to sight read anything. But the situation here was at the start of my last lesson the teacher suggested we play this piece as a duo.

So how did it go, did he explain what he was hoping you would achieve from the exercise? 🙂

Jx

 

[wakyct]

So how did it go,

We have a lesson once a month usually, so no news yet.

 

[ghostler]

Back in the early 1970's, The Naval School of Music, Virginia Beach, VA would put out new concert music every several days for us students in concert band rehearsal. They were training us to sight read. They also rotated clarinet players between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd parts. We had a combination of both instructors and band leaders in training conducting the practice, so we didn't get used to one leader's particular style. (They taught consistency in style, but people vary in their ways.)

The reason for teaching sight reading is that the band may receive a last minute tasking for a job. With little preparation time, we were on the road to do a sight read concert.

The first thing I do is quickly scan the music for all key changes, flow of the music - repeats, DS / DC al Coda, endings. Look at the dynamic markings. Then quickly look over any technically challenging passages, note ending and beginning measures on page chages. During play, my eyes scan quickly where I am at and a couple measures ahead, eyes glancing quickly back and forth. This preps my brain for what is coming up next so it doesn't catch me by surprise.